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Only teacher of Psychology

Discussion in 'Social sciences' started by pati, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Pati,

    I could make the argument from a management point of view that the HoD's position is not necessay. Its a whole line of expense for nothing.

    After all, what is a HoD doing that I do not do? I'll answer that for you - nothing..... and to boot I am doing the job part time as well.

  2. buzzyb ( and celtick - since i think you mentioned this too), why should I be fighting for additional pay for a job I can do standing on my head , eyes closed with a toe stuck in my ear?

    I am fighting a much more serious battle ( and no Celtick I dont mean parity / recognition of QRS for FE teachers) - the battle of having a job at all!

    Since 1994 , I have been made redundant , or threatened with it five times. Three of those five I have been made redundnat and found it hard to get another job. On two occassions I have jumped ship before it struck.

    There are NQT's without jobs. There are experienced teachers like myself who cannot get posts because we already cost too much ( let alone fighting for HoD pay!)

    I have fought and seen the battle of pay and conditions lost in FE. When we lost that battle ( a bit like the miners back in the mid 1980's) it was the beginning of the end.

    Teachers pay will go the same way as FE did. Indeed I warned about it on these fora four years ago. I was poo hoo'd then.

    Now I have my own battles to fight - they start with keeping a job ( and a roof) over my head. If that means doing "HoD Work" for an additional allowance of two free paid free periods a week and a position at top of mainscale I'll do it. if I dont dozens of others will ( like the OP , who must have known the nature of the post when he/she got it - and accepted it)

    Such are market forces.
  3. I should add, I actually enjoy teaching psychology A level and the work that goes with it ( HoD's work or not) I dont do it for pay.

    At least I normally enjoy it.At the moment ( as celtick knows - redundancy and contract issues with my getting another job .... jumping ship before the rats force me overboard) I am not well!

    However, I do enjoy teaching generally and as I long as I can do it, money isnt an issue.
  4. barrie - i understand what you are saying - and as i hope you know I think you have been handed some very bum cards of late and I completely sympathise.
    However..........most of us need the money, and deserve that payment to be fair and equitable - so I feel hat that IS a battle worth fighting, even if it is not a personal priority at the moment for you.
    I am not sure that an NQT would really understand what she ' was letting herself in for' - I know that many of us are quite idealistic about schools and education from the outside looking in and only gradually see the realities of money and management agendas and schools basically exploiting people's goodwill to the nth degree.

    I am sorry you are not well - and no wonder with what has been going on. You are obviously a very commited, experienced and no doubt excellen teacher - you deserve better, and I do hope things settle and then imporve for you very soon. Do take care of your health!
  5. Barrie,
    As you admit you find it difficult getting other jobs because you are already to expensive. But at 31 and living on £19,100 gross a year with a mortgage and car and everything else to pay for is hard. Especially when you are using more of your time than the other NQTs doing stuff that their head of deps do, but not being given extra time or money for it.
  6. Pati,

    I have told it as it is generally. I work in the SW too - probably less than 100 miles from you and could pin your school to one of about three..... probably.

    What you describe is common practice in schools in this neck of the woods. Its a buyers market frankly, since depite there not being many psychology teachers around, there are enough for a school to
    " choose"

    last full time post I went for there were five applicants . The NQT got the job - and it was basically the same job as I ( and you) are doing now.

    If you want more dosh there is only one thing for it - you must negotiate ( talk to your union rep first though).

    You misunderstand if you think I am somehow so well off because I am top of mainscale. In fact in terms of pay I am earning less than you are ( I am part time and get 14K).

    I manage on that. Its the trade off for being part time.

    You said in your OP that you were thinking of going part time. You do realise that will cut your pay to?

  7. Sorry - belay last statement. I have re read your post. I was getting it confused with another one along similar lines.

    Yours is simply about pay.

    As I said you will have to negotiate. I dont think you are elegible for a TLR ( because you dont have staff under you) but you might be able to negotiate paid free periods ( as I have) or a higher point on the scle.
  8. Barrie, first off look after yourself(()), I really understand where you are coming from. An experienced and dedicated teacher. Trading off p/t pay for security etc.

    But as a teacher (FE-Reception) with alot of experience. And now main wage earing with two small kids. I work p/t because thats all around ( in SW too!)and can hardly manage rent(oh that i could aford a mortgage!) and petrol to get to school.

    But as a sole psy. teacher I work hard and in my opinion above and beyond my p/t hours. I do it because I love my subject and want my students to do well.

    But if in restructuring pay I'm classed as only doing what is expected and threrfore no TLR, whats m choice? leave a job I love? What incentive will there be if I'm unlikely to ever move up?

    Living in the SW there is alot of temp. contracts and p/t work but if we don't stand up for ourselves who will?
  9. which is exactly my point -we must not just accept things because they are common practice. Nor do you have to do it all yourself - get the union to help you wirte to the ATP and ATSS and ask them to address your concerns at a national and regional level, they are well represented now at the highest levels.

    This situation is now less common than it used to be, as more and more people cannot be palmed off annd used as cheap labour as 'instructors', depts grow etc - but it is the way of the world that authorities and schools will try to get away with it for as long as we let it go unchallenged.

    I have to say that even when I was a sole teacher of Psychology, and setting up the dept from scratch, as NQT is, I WAS paid a Ma allowance = to MA2 - and I don not think I am that unusual nowadays.

    Do get the union to help you pati and negotiate something to recognise the reality of your situation.
  10. Celtick Chick,

    At the end of the day its about the kids. Sometimes regardless of the work, it has to be done.

    STL's often have to do work that is well above and beyond the duty of the "job description".

    If I stepped into my classroom now and did that I wouldnt be able to teach my lessons. I do the job because I enjoy it. I did management tasks when I wasnt management in order to develop skills.

    I think you will find that by having the "Im not getting paid" approach to teaching you wont get anywhwere. Teachers who succeed are the ones who get the job done and get the results. Nobody likes the whole "Im not getting paid so Im not doing it approach" because at the end of the day someone has to do it otherwise the kids lose out.

    I think its sad that often the focus is taken off the kids and trivialised by these issues. As the students success is most important as far as Im concerned.
  11. yes Burt there is a case for doing the job without pay - and I did for 18 months when subject leader went off sick in a previous job - and yes that came in useful when I did apply for a HOD job. However......there are times when this is exploited and is cheap-skate management. We do deserve a fair deal, and I will not apolOgise for fighting for it. I resent your implications and respectfully ask that you come out of your rose tinted world just for a moment and ask yourself if schools would try this on with say French or History or Maths.....or get away with it ....and if the answer is no then you have to wonder why on earth they should be allowed to treat subjects differently. that is what this is about, not about notions of dedication or commitment. I have been described many times as someone dedicated to her students and passionate about education. But that does not mean I am prepared to accept second-class citizen treatment especially from managers who will give themselves large and unwarranted pay rises on a regular basis!
  12. Burt - get of your high horse,
    I don't really like your insinuation that I don't care or *don't do it for the kids* which I think is a frankly cringe making statement.
    Why shouldn't I get paid for the duties and extra work I do - other departments recognise and reward this work.
    By the way, the whole 'I'm such a martyr' attitude is more annoying than the 'I'm not doing it 'cos I'm not getting paid' attitude. Teachers aren't saints and don't want to be regarded as such, (if they do they shouldn't be teachers as they obviously are too needy).We are professionals who have trained and work hard and expect that to be recognised. If they don't they are fools who probably bought their house in 1978 when it cost 12k and can retire at 60 and so can, quite smugly and comfortably, tell younger teaching staff to 'do it for the kids'.
  13. yes that should be 'off' your high horse.
  14. Our head is replacing my old management allowance as HoD of one and a quarter teachers with a TFL level 2. If he can do it, other's should be able to. He said that some unscrupulous heads are using this as a cost cutting exercise. This may be of help with the unions.
  15. absolutley. yes the guidelines for TLR's are just that - guidelines not strict criteria - so if you meet all of them but one......the scope is there I think to give a TLR.
    Our union rep has succesfully challenged several decisions so no reason not to try.
  16. blt

    blt New commenter

    I agree - this stupidity about TLRs not been given when appropriate is totally ridiculous. In my school the Soc Sci dept is the only one without a 2nd in dept in the whole school, they've ditched all heads of year, and added 2 assistant heads to our structure! As for this "martyr" attitude some people seem to be taking, well it disgusts me to be honest and undermines the rest of us. We are professionals like any other and should be treated as such
  17. post 29 - Burt

    I'm still reeling that collegues such as yourself think standing up for yourself and protecting employment rights is so unreasonable!

    Gone are days where teachers' had the pay and professional standing, let alone standard of living that other graduates enjoy.

    To be an effective teacher you have to work above and beyond, but just because most of us do doesn't mean we shoulded be rewarded for it. God knows in industry/ business we would be.

    Remember that some of us face retirement with pensions that will be worth very little and not enough income to address this.
  18. This is arguably off topic, but I feel it germane, so please bear with me...

    Where it comes to the FE/schoolie comparison, one of the main reasons why FE lecturers got shafted was incorporation. When Kretinous Kelly got cornered this week at the AoC conference and announced that the funding gap would be closed (to a mere 8%, paise the Lard, although this presumably by cutting school funding rather than increasing that for FE) she stated that the pay dispute was between lecturers and individual colleges and that the government had no input.

    If Tony and his idiot cabinet get their way, then it sounds as if what they plan for schools is rather similar to what incorporation was for FE colleges...the bright promise of independence that resulted in a sector run by spivs. Goodbye to national bargaining and protection of your conditions. Goodbye to professional protection as schools hire whoever's cheapest because they are 'free' to do so. Please don't let this happen to you. Start making some damn noise.


  19. I think I agree aidan - but one thing interests me....in Scotland, although fE colleges are similarly independent and set their own payscales......they are comparable to teachers pay scale ( or at leat it was pre-Mccrone - not sure about now - but for example when I moved from school to FE my pay was same at top of college scale as it was at top of school scale)....i wonder why........or is that the Unions in Scotland seem to be a hell of alot more effective than in englad and have a much more active membership....
  20. This topic has moved away from the original post, into what seems like a big moan about personal situations!
    I run a single person dept in a school - I was an NQT still when I got the job, now I am full time and have built up the dept from scratch. Thanks to the help of my union rep the head has agreed to pay me half a TLR point (at point 1) for my job as course leader - not much, but worth it to me!!
    Now I am at M6, and I would like to go onto the upper scale next year.. I would like to know if any others have had problems getting a new job as course leader in pscy once you are on U P scale??

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