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Onerous job interview?

Discussion in 'Teaching overseas' started by akay19, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. akay19

    akay19 New commenter

    Hi folks. I was recently offered a job interview in HK and they wanted a 15 minute video of a lesson. I had to upload the video to YouTube. They then mentioned if I went further they would come to my school in the UK and watch me teach. Does anyone else think this is extremely onerous. I withdrew in the end, I’m not sure how my head teacher would take it and all the safeguarding issues. Any one else had similar. All my other interviews are a lot simpler.
     
  2. percy topliss

    percy topliss Occasional commenter

    I believe that they do it to get rid of time wasters.

    Perce
     
  3. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    Schools invest a lot of money in teachers sand there families if appointed, so you can't blame them for making sure they do the right checks.

    If they are with you all the time, there are no safe guarding issues, it's only if they are left alone.

    If the school is just outside of HK, it's a excellent one, with an amazing package, good group of schools to work for as Perce knows.

    Sounds like you are the type of person they aren't looking for.
     
  4. Stillstayingjohnson

    Stillstayingjohnson Occasional commenter


    Posting a video of children on Youtube is a safeguarding concern. Obtaining the parental consent would be both laborious, and probably uncomfortable for somebody looking to leave their current school.

    I think the OP would probably have consulted his HT If the process had gone far enough for the potential employer to visit him in the UK.

    I think you could have voiced your point without the harsh comment about the OP.
     
    ChaiLattePlease likes this.
  5. KolleyKibber

    KolleyKibber New commenter

    Very, very harsh at the end there. You know absolutely nothing about the OP, so why make such a comment? I tend to agree that the application is onerous. If I really wanted the job I would go through with it, but if I had other options I would definitely think twice too.
     
  6. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    I don't agree, it's probably easier than having an interview in the UK, for a start you don't even have to travel, for the job I have just had I had to pay all my expenses to go to London, take a day off, set cover etc. In the process it won't cost anything and you don't have to go anywhere.

    I'd have rather have done that than my process would have been cheaper and time saving.

    Not sure what the big deal is, it costs thousands to recruit someone, so if they want to see someone teacha couple of times, then it's fair enough.

    I think the school are being pretty fair to be honest.
     
    576 likes this.
  7. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    99% of the students will have signed the school policy to say they are happy for photos and videos to be taken, so doubt it would have been a problem.

    Although I'm not sure why they need to upload to YouTube when they could have used cloud storage.
     
  8. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    I just spoke a friend of mine who has to do the same process and you an either upload to YouTube or google drive
     
  9. schmedz

    schmedz Occasional commenter

    Given that you can upload private videos to YouTube, there is no issue with safeguarding (and if anyone is exempt from permission to have their photo/video footage put on the internet, then don't include them in the video!). You can delete the video the moment it is no longer required.

    I have had this before - initial Skype interview, followed by video footage and then a visit from the Head of the international school to my UK school. It was reassuring to know that they went through such rigorous checks on who they were employing, as my kids would have been attending the school when we moved!

    I agree with willow that it is far less onerous and expensive than a regular interview in your current country (or having to fly to another country so they can see you in person - how I wish them coming to me was an option for the jobs I'm currently in the running for!)

    To be honest, I find it more uncomfortable to think that many International Teaching staff are only appointed on the basis of interview/references etc... without anyone having seen them deliver a lesson (or part thereof).

    Good luck to the OP in finding a post with which s/he is happy - those flipping job applications alone take hours!
     
  10. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Established commenter

    I think the OP is right to be cautious about uploading any video that contains their students.

    Anything the students would have signed would have been related to official school business, and is unlikely to apply in this case as it relates to the applicant (so not school business). Also the data is being transferred outside the EEA so would need to comply with section 8 of the Data Protection Act. It would be wise then to first get approval from the headteacher and also seek separate permission from the parents. Worst case scenario is a complaint could me made to the ICO and end up with a heavy fine for the school, who may seek damages from the applicant if they'd not obtained permission to do so.

    Even though you can make it private uploading, you can't guarantee what someone at the other end will do with it. They can easily copy it and share it. So, that risk needs to made clear when seeking permission.
     
  11. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    You have to be cautious, there is no doubt band seek permission from the head, but this isn't a new process and schools all over the world do this, most schools social media channels contain videos that are open and be acccessed all over the world.

    Just seems a bit to strange to withdraw on the back of this
     
  12. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    If they are willing to heap the **** upon you before you even get in the school, imagine how much more will be piled on you once you are in a foreign country and at their mercy.
    Like the UK school application forms, schools are often testing whether the candidate is a total ***** who will ask how high? when told to jump. This is a very important criteria for most SLT.
     
  13. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Established commenter

    I imagine in the later cases, at least in the UK, they will have gained permission for the parents and relates to school business. I was advising caution in this case as videoing for an interview wouldn't be covered by those permissions.

    I am sure there are plenty of people who do upload videos containing minors without gaining the relevant permissions first, just as there are plenty of people who go faster than the posted speed limit.
     
  14. percy topliss

    percy topliss Occasional commenter

    Forgive my attempt at levity earlier, however, one must remember that there are now a real plethora of "International " schools around. In my neck of the woods, Bangkok, there are in excess of 150, including one of the schools mentioned by the OP. The school here uses the same interview process and it has paid dividends, the quality of staff has gone up a good deal which is what an establishment like theirs both wants and needs in order to justify the fantastic amounts of money it charges to families. Of course there are other schools who do none of the above, they read a CV take it at face value and sometimes win the lottery at other times they get someone who wants to live in the Big Mango and have a holiday whilst occasionally turning up for school smelling of beer. The same is true for HK. I should imagine that the train of thought is that if someone cannot be bothered to go through a serious recruitment process, one which would be quite normal in industry, then they are not the right person for this particular group of schools, I think that this was what Willow was alluding to in his, also, tongue in cheek post. As with most things these days someone chose to jump on him from a great height without actually thinking things through.

    Wearily,

    Perce
     
    schmedz and 576 like this.
  15. KolleyKibber

    KolleyKibber New commenter

    Yes, because the 'tongue in cheek' shines through in the post. I am sure your very dismissive final sentence is 'tongue in cheek' too.

    May I say however, that I do understand and fully accept the point about the serious recruitment process. That is a very fair point.

    Signed,

    The Easily Offended
     
  16. kemevez

    kemevez Occasional commenter

    Quite normal in industry? I was under the illusion that quite normal is to apply for a job, not tell your current employer, get the job and then and only then do they ask for references and you tell your boss that you are heading to your next gig.

    This particular process does seem onerous to me (to all parties involved) and a bit of a minefield for the reasons already given related to privacy. It also seems a bit weird to say the least - is the next step for the recruiters to come an live with you for a week to see what your daily life is like so they can form an impression of how you would fit in socially and adapt to their far flung part of the world? Also, do they in return fly you out to see if they are the right fit for you? If they do really pay "fantastic" money and one needs the money so bad then I can see why one might jump through their hoops. But it looks like an over the top and unintelligent process to me that just serves the self serving who think it's their way or the highway. Each to their own though.
     
    makhnovite likes this.
  17. schmedz

    schmedz Occasional commenter

    Stiltskin, I'm pretty sure that the only person who can download a Private (not just Unlisted) YouTube video is the person who uploaded it in the first place. Private videos can only be viewed by the ones with whom they are directly shared, too.

    I guess, that if you find this process of recruitment onerous, it may well be that the expectations of the school would be also be onerous and in that case, it's better to find out now you're not a great fit together.

    Different strokes for different folks. Personally, I don't think a bit of hoop-jumping is a problem if it gets me a job in a school I love to work at, with great colleagues who can teach my kids well. I confess to even having written a hand-written cover letter once before (which to me has far less relevance to the quality of my teaching than uploading a video of me doing my actual job!)
     
  18. 576

    576 Occasional commenter

    I don't consider it onerous.
    I knew someone once who applied for a deputy head position (in the UK), the head travelled to observe him in his (at the time) present school.
    I had a colleague who videoed themselves teaching for an interview and a current colleague has just videoed themselves giving a presentation for an interview.
     
  19. tb9605

    tb9605 Occasional commenter

    Videoing a lesson (or part of it) is fine, but they should have asked you to share it via dropbox or similar... not a public forum such as Youtube. Even if it's a private video, it would probably breach the policy of your current employer to do so. As many other posters have pointed out, that's a massive safe-guarding issue (and I would be very worried about the lack of concern for basic e-safety and safeguarding being exhibited by any school asking you to do this).
     
  20. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Established commenter

    You are putying western laws and ideas into the context of another country. Have you considered that this country may not have sny of these requirements or laws? You can also make a youtube channel private.
     

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