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Off-rolling does far more good than harm.

Discussion in 'Education news' started by David Getling, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. circuskevin

    circuskevin Established commenter

    Often the most disruptive kid is also the most talented one.

    I was doing a 'circus performer' badge for brownies last night. One 8 year old girl kept pestering me to try the hands free stiltwalking. I had to keep reminding her to master the hand held stiltwalking first as every one else seemed to understand and do. Eventually the other girls told me she was just like this in school and had to sit by herself sometimes.

    She decided to persist and quickly mastered the hand held stiltwalking. I then strapped her into the hands free stilts. She stood up. I was going to hold her hand as she got the hang of them. She promptly let go and strode off like a seasoned stiltwalker! Easily the most talented.

    The brownie leaders confirmed they had none of her usual behaviour problems.

  2. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Those of us that can teach "difficult" children should get a higher salary than those of you that can't due to our superior skills set and ability.
  3. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    A higher salary????:eek:

    I thought your reward was to be put on Capability a bit slower than the rest of us.:(
    Scintillant and ridleyrumpus like this.
  4. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    I'd agree with giving you a higher salary, but it would be as a reward for enduring the extreme aggravation, rather than any superiority.
    As a private tutor I only teach A-level maths, chemistry and physics, and I don't hesitate to drop anyone who treats me in an inconsiderate or disrespectful manner. I don't earn as much as what I'd get in a school, but it's well worth not having to deal with kids who don't want to learn. I suspect that almost all of those who do stay with me would tell you that I'm considerably better at teaching all three subjects than most of their classroom teachers: and most of my students come from what are meant to be the best schools.
  5. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    With this you're harking back to a time when education was only for a few, and those few needed financial backing.

    When this government, or any government, actually decides what it wants from education (aside from a complex baby-sitting arrangement) then I hope it goes for universal education rather than the ability to remove a selection because it's too thick/disruptive/unphotogenic. You can be certain that MATs will chuck out even more if not forced to keep them.
  6. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    So when you talk about disruptive children and classrooms you've not actually got much experience of these situations?
    Brunel likes this.
  7. Robfreeman

    Robfreeman Occasional commenter

  8. Robfreeman

    Robfreeman Occasional commenter

    I have in fact the last two schools I have worked in didnt have an on call system
  9. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    Surely, as you obviously have the time, you would be better employed taking those disruptive kids out of school and teaching them in small groups? That would be a win win in your eyes. The good kids don't get their education interrupted and the 'bad; kids get theirs as well! result.
  10. circuskevin

    circuskevin Established commenter

    David's biggest ever class size is ... wait for it ... drum roll ... ONE!

    Apart from his PGCE.

    Scintillant likes this.
  11. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    By and large, it is not the teachers fault but the fault of poorly thought out and/or implemented behavioural management systems in the school. If poor behaviour is managed consistently and pupils learn that there really is consequences then the majority will express good behaviour for learning.

    However shouting in someones face will not work with the disaffected pupils of this world, the ones that in the past who could not care less if they were caned, probably because it was just like being at home.

    I would suggest that following your advice today would have a negative effect on the classroom as a whole as screaming and shouting would not affect the disaffected who would tell you to F-Off (and if you were lucky storm out) but would also turn a large proportion of the other students away from you. You would have complaints left right and centre from parents about how coming to your class was making them "anxious" and "unsafe". If you get too many complaints you will be managed out no matter if your actions are legitimate or not.

    It is becoming, scratch that, it has become an impossible job.
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  12. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    Can I take it then that you no longer teach in a classroom? Can I ask, if so then when did you last teach in a classroom?

    Things have changed enormously over the last very few years.

    You are comparing yourself favourably as a teacher when teaching one to one to a teacher who is teaching possibly 20-30 to one. As a scientist, you should be able to spot that that comparison will not reveal valid results.
  13. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    We don't either. What is supposed to happen is we send the miscreant to a nominated classroom, of course they invariably don't make it there.
  14. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    When I was at school in the, mumble mumble, we had a dedicated classroom where the miscreants of all ages were "dumped" with a senior member of staff. IIRC they were in there until they could demonstrate that they could behave, many never left.
  15. Robfreeman

    Robfreeman Occasional commenter

    Didnt have those either
  16. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Very often there is no on call system, no place to send miscreants, it's up to the teacher to deal with it. It's frowned on if a teacher sends a student out of class in many schools, depsite there being no alternative.

    I remember a small school where the official policy was that disruptive students could be sent to the head. I had a difficult Y10 class there with a couple of real charmers in it and one day I sent one of my charmers to the head, as directed. About 15 mins alter, just as I had got the rest of them settled and working quietly, the door is flung open and in walks said charmer, big smile, announces loudly "she sent me back miss". And of course, no more productive work was done for the rest of the class.
  17. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I found put recently that person who mentored me and was a phenomenal teacher, is now on capability. Even when I was still working in the same school around 10 years ago, you could see people who didn't like the fact that he could just teach so naturally and easily. There is no way on earth that losing his experience would be anything other than a total disaster,
    vinnie24 and JohnJCazorla like this.
  18. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    There's the added point that he ditched the pupils who don't like him.
  19. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    Actually "those who stay with me" is a very, very select group.

    It consists of:-

    those that are unsatisfied with the education being provided at school and/or those that are struggling and/or those that are bothered or being pushed by parents, hence they sought a tutor.


    "those who stay with me" are those that DG is happy to tutor


    "those who stay with me" are only those that are willing to pay to be tutored by DG

    and of that very narrow select group "almost all" are only "suspected" of being satisfied that the tutoring is better than that provided by "most" of the pupils teachers.

    I take back my assertion that the OP was trolling but not that he was being naive.
  20. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Contrary to a few suggestions, I have quite a bit of experience teaching in schools. This is why I am so passionate about crushing disruptive behaviour. I've seen how damaging it is to good students. As to my own in school teaching skills let me tell you about when I used to regularly do some supply teaching in Germany. I can remember one of the teachers remarking that it was amazing that the kids were actually happy for me to give them proper lessons (and cooperated) rather than me just acting as a baby sitter. And often when kids knew I was in the school they would ask their teacher if they could pop out for a second to ask me for help with something. Now, just watch the back-biters try to twist and disparage what I've just said.

    And, talking of twisting what I've said. I didn't advocate the drill sergeant approach in ordinary classes: it was for bad kids who had been removed to correctional facilities.

    I'm there for those who want to learn, and in the schools I taught in I was usually a very popular teacher. Maybe if they had been UK schools this might not have been the case. But who really wants to teach in most of today's UK schools?

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