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Nursery Ratios.

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by hayley24, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. EY_Teacher

    EY_Teacher New commenter

    We have a child with, as yet, undiagnosed needs. She cannot be left on her own - she hurts children, eats things, etc... It’s not safe for her or the other children for her to be on her own. (She’s a five-termer, so wouldn’t start other local nurseries until September.) Mum has been staying with her (she has also done all of the above with mum present - hurting etc...), but no longer wants to as she wants to go home and leave her. My SENCO has said that one of my EYPs (we are a 45 place per session nursery and have 1 teacher and 3 EYPs) will have to be her 1:1. My question is: doesn’t that take us out of ratio? We will effectively be 44 children with 3 adults as the child does need constant supervision. We literally cannot take our eyes off of her (she doesn’t even respond/recognise her own name). TIA.
     
  2. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Your ratio should be 1:13, so yes you would be out of ratio if you use one of your EYPs to be a 1:1 TA.
    Unless you can have 1:13 for 39 children and the EYP can actually be said to be with 6 children.

    However, if this child has no EHCP (or whatever the current acronym is) then they have no entitlement to a 1:1 TA for all her hours, so in effect you still have 4 adults and 45 children, so legally are fine.

    What you probably need to decide is whether your nursery is the best place for this child.
     
  3. littlejackhorner

    littlejackhorner Occasional commenter

    Are you in a school or a private nursery? If it's a private nursery then I agree with all that @caterpillartobutterfly has said. If it's a state school nursery then you should have another teacher as you will come under infant class size regulations which state one teacher for up to 30 pupils.
    Has your SENCO observed the child? Can they provide other strategies? When I worked in a nursery with a child like this we reduced the hours of attendance and built it up gradually as he became more accepting of our boundaries. In the meantime we made an urgent request to obtain extra funding to support a 1-1 to meet their needs.
     
  4. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    No, this isn't true. The 1:30 ratio starts with Reception.
     
  5. grumbleweed

    grumbleweed Lead commenter

    Sadly the addition in a previous incarnation of the EYFS statutory framework which stated a nursery class should not exceed 30, was removed in the 2017 update. It's very typical for nursery classes to have 39 or even 52 children with one teacher.
    In this situation you are legal if the school has deemed you to be safe in ratio. If there is an EHCP indicating the child needs one to one then it's a different matter. The best you can do is explain and explain the impact of using a TA 1:1 has on safety and opportunity for the other children and push for an EHCP.
     
  6. littlejackhorner

    littlejackhorner Occasional commenter

    Thanks for the clarification @grumbleweed . I have been out of teaching for 3 years so that explains things. What a backwards step. Pity the poor nursery teacher who could well end up with 90 reports to write if they have 2 x 45 cohorts. Yet another reason I'm glad I'm out of things now.
     
  7. grumbleweed

    grumbleweed Lead commenter

    Yup that was me about 15 years ago! 78 part time children me and 2 TAs.
     
  8. EY_Teacher

    EY_Teacher New commenter

    Thank you for all your replies. The child’s parents have said they’re only using us as their local nursery (we are a school nursery) doesn’t have any places for 5 termers, so she can’t start with them until September. We are not likely to get anything in place in time for it to make much impact before July. I’ll keep plugging the safeguarding issues until someone listens. Mum and dad just want three hours off from her. We have lots of strategies and things we can try with her, but obviously it’s doing to take someone away from the rest of the class -meaning that her key worker isn’t going to be able to work with/observe/interact with her other children as eyes cannot be taken off this child. My senco hasn’t even met the child or the parents. She’s given all her advice via email to me ‍♀️ She was doing an hour with mum (she only started this term), but mum no longer wants to stay with her. Senco has told mum that’s fine and one of us will support her. Looks like she will start the week doing 2 hours with mum and will end the week doing 2 hours on her own. Adding to the 10 children we still have in nappies, two needing daily S&L, one with a brain condition, 1 with possible ASD, and daily Shared Reading/Phonics groups I’m supposed to be doing - it’s going to be a fun rest of the year for the four of us! Thanks for all the advice and reading that rant!
     
  9. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    You and the EYFS lead need to have an urgent meeting with the headteacher and discuss all of this.
    Daily phonics and shared reading is not necessary in nursery and may well be the thing that has to go.
    Can another TA or the SENDCO do the S&L activities? Or parents do them at home?

    Other than that...you (and your team) deserve a medal!
     

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