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Numbers We Can't Ignore

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Tom_Pubes, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. Tom_Pubes

    Tom_Pubes Senior commenter

  2. cariadwch

    cariadwch Established commenter

    So what's the solution, how can we stop illegals and also run an economy that is integrated into a globalized transportation and economic system, a system that British governments and businesses have been the chief advocates and drivers over the last 3 decades?
    How much more would you be prepared to pay for goods and how much more tax would you be prepared to pay to ensure illegal immigrants cannot enter the country?
    What can Britain do without international cooperation to solve the current humanitarian crisis?
     
  3. IceCreamVanMan

    IceCreamVanMan Occasional commenter

    Why would we ignore them?
     
  4. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Perhaps there is no solution, or, maybe capitalism can solve it as it seems to be our nations panacea for all that ails us.
    How much are we paying now for all the associated troubles?
    Just regain control of our borders, that would of course mean upsetting our continental friends and a few others to boot.
    Then there is the methods used by Australia where you can only enter for permanent residence via a points system. Obviously this would not solve the illegal entrants who IMO should be deported en-masse, not because they are foreign, because they are illegally here.
     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.
  5. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Can't ignore?

    :p
     
    ninenotes likes this.
  6. Horatio_Blows

    Horatio_Blows Senior commenter

    Numbers We Can't Ignore

    The chattering classes will do their best to.
     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.
  7. cariadwch

    cariadwch Established commenter

    Regaining control is a difficult one and to check every truck and car entering the country will increase prices and taxes.

    Switzerland, Norway and the USA have been unable to stop illegal immigration.
     
  8. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Clearly you have no understanding of the Ignore facility ;):D
     
  9. Tom_Pubes

    Tom_Pubes Senior commenter

    Well, we could stop helping them to come in, and start prosecuting people who do help them, or who do not take precautions to stop them. I mean, just lock the back of your lorry! Duh!
     
    Cantandmorecant and Joe_Pubes like this.
  10. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    The Daily Mail article quoted by the original poster contains:

    Last night, Lord Carlile of Berriew QC, the former terror law watchdog, said the increased number of border alerts was a result of the heightened threat from jihadis.

    'Given what has happened in the past year and the fragility of the European border system, the authorities would be acting irresponsibly if there were not more alerts,' he said.


    This suggests a changing of the threshold as to when people trigger alerts. If you lower it you will get more alerts...

    Remember that this is the Daily Mail.
    The Daily Mail online is like...


    Aragorn_holding_a_Palantir_01.JPG
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...trying-cross-UK-border-DAY.html#ixzz3vYNIpA4S
     
  11. Tom_Pubes

    Tom_Pubes Senior commenter

    Nothing wrong with the Daily Mail.
     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.
  12. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    "Almost 300 suspected terrorists, criminals and illegal migrants are trying to cross the UK border EVERY DAY" Daily Mail headline.

    Three groups put together to produce a large number. Most people will read terrorists and skim the rest. If it started with vulnerable refugees it just would not be as gripping.

    Now I like the Daily Mail but I recognise that it can lack balance at times in the reporting of an issue. It does also has a political agenda.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...trying-cross-UK-border-DAY.html#ixzz3vYV8hQkT
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  13. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

  14. Tom_Pubes

    Tom_Pubes Senior commenter

    Well, they all have political agenda, don't they?
     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.
  15. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    I repeat:
    "Perhaps there is no solution, or, maybe capitalism can solve it as it seems to be our nations panacea for all that ails us." Sarcasm, yes I know it is, yet capitalism seems to be at the root of the 'control problem'.
     
  16. Joe_Pubes

    Joe_Pubes Senior commenter

    Because nothing else tried has worked.

    A lot. Look at all the food that's spoiled because illegals get into the back of trucks. The consumer is paying for it not the companies. Then there's the millions spent by the government on wire fences in Calais. The British tax payer is footing the bill. Then the intermittent closures of the tunnel when it's invaded by illegals. The delays and costs of that to business which are passed onto the consumer/tax payer. As is the motorway traffic ground to a halt on the way to the tunnel. As is the costs of policing the motorways and exit from the tunnel, the checking of lorries for illegals, the cost and time of police manpower being taken away from other crime areas. There are huge costs in so many areas.

    Well, too bad. But many want to do that anyway. Only we rarely hear from them. Never gets reported. Never gets discussed.

    That would be the best and most viable system. Perhaps that's why it's used by around 180 countries in the world.

    If there was a will to do that it would work. But it won't because there isn't.
     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.
  17. Joe_Pubes

    Joe_Pubes Senior commenter

    They could just as easily be one group with those three characteristics. When is a terrorist legal? When is a criminal legal? When is an illegal migrant legal? Easy to have all three when all three are illegal.

    And the Guardian, Huffington Post and all other left wing newspapers don't?
     
    Cantandmorecant and Yoda- like this.
  18. Joe_Pubes

    Joe_Pubes Senior commenter

    Is it unbalanced just because it's on the front page?

    A single search for the front pages of the Guardian

    Notice anything? Hardly any with immigration on the front page. That's because, when they do print it, it's usually buried in the middle section and then has a spin of poor vulnerable migrants when it's been shown over and over again that most are solely economic migrants.

    The BBC are one of the worst perpetrators of this biased spin.

    "Critics accused the corporation of “political bias” and questioned its interpretation of its own polling data after claiming the research gave “no indication” of any “huge Romanian-Bulgarian influx” to the UK.

    The BBC’s Newsnight programme polled 1,000 people each in the two countries earlier this year and found that large numbers of people are planning to come to the UK as the rules are relaxed.

    It found that 1 per cent of working age Romanians and 4.2 per cent of Bulgarians said they are currently looking for work in the UK in 2013 or 2014.


    The BBC did not convert those percentages into potential numbers of migrants and said they showed that “very small numbers of people” in the two countries are considering moving to the UK.

    In Romania there are around 15.3million people of working age, meaning that the 1 per cent considering moving to the UK equates to around 153,000 people.

    In Bulgaria there are around 4.67million people of working age, meaning that according to the BBC statistics, more than 196,000 could be considering moving to the UK to find a job.


    Mark Pritchard, Conservative MP for The Wrekin, questioned the BBC’s handling of its own data.

    “I don’t question the integrity of Newsnight’s figures,” he said. “But I do question their interpretation. The BBC has got it wrong before and I think they’ve got it wrong again.

    “The survey could be interpreted to suggest that 350,000 [people] are potentially coming to the UK.

    “Whatever the final figure is, it will have an impact on housing, health and the benefits system.”

    Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence Party, said: “It looks to me as though the BBC is using very heavy spin on their polling figures. Quite frankly their headline simply does not match the results they have been given.”

    Philip Davies, the Conservative MP for Shipley, added: “I don’t see why we should be surprised because the BBC has a track record of not being impartial and giving us their own political bias.”


    The BBC survey also found that of those saying they were considering coming to the UK, just 1.2 per cent of Bulgarians and 0.4 per cent of Romanians indicated that they had started making concrete plans.

    It also said that that seven in ten of the Romanians who are thinking about moving to live in Britain would reconsider in the light of the tough new restrictions to benefits for migrants being proposed by the Coalition.

    The BBC denied “spinning” the headline figures and insisted that it had been “clear” in its reporting.

    “We have been clear in our reporting that the surveys are a snapshot of opinion and that people’s intentions may change,” a spokesman said. “It is difficult to see how any of this constitutes spinning.”

    Migration Watch, a thinktank which has a good record of forecasting migration, published figures earlier this year suggesting that 50,000 Romanians and Bulgarians will come here every year.

    Earlier this month a study by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (Niesr), a research group, said the number is “not possible to predict”.


    Despite being paid £30,000 of public money and drawing on more than 100 research works, Niesr was not explicitly asked to produce any estimates of how many people might come to the UK.

    However the same think tank suggested in 2011 that around 21,000 immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria a year will come here - substantially more than the 13,000 a year predicted in a report for the last Labour government.
    "



     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.
  19. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Nice quote from The Telegraph back in 2013
     
  20. Joe_Pubes

    Joe_Pubes Senior commenter

    Does that anything? Rather it shows the concerns even before the two countries mentioned had restrictions lifted. And of course the long running bias of the BBC.
     
    Cantandmorecant likes this.

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