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Number of International Jobs

Discussion in 'Teaching overseas' started by mrjack, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. mrjack

    mrjack New commenter

    HI all,
    Are there less International Jobs around this year or am I mistaken? Have been on the lookout for an opportunity in Hong Kong since last year and only seen one I could apply for. Doesn't seem to be lots of Phys Ed Jobs going full stop.
    Looks like I'm doomed to be stuck another year in a job I'm slowly starting to hate.
     
  2. It depends where you looked. There were definitely less jobs on the TES website than in previous years. However, there were many more on the Search Associates database and other agencies.
     
  3. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    Mr Jack, I think you are right, there really does seem to be precious little around at the moment.

    I'd said in an earlier email that I might consider using Search Associates, and I've just visited their website. However they charge a registration fee of $200. Now, when I worked in I.T. I made a lot of use of recruitment agencies. When, I provided services charged on a weekly basis, they took a commission. For permanent salaried posts the firm paid. But, NEVER has it been the case that a candidate had to pay a registration fee. This is totally unacceptable, and I think another poster said that in the UK it is illegal.

    To charge people, who may be desperate for work, money before one has actually found them a job seems immoral to me. I wonder whether the schools they have on their books know, or care about this practice.
     
  4. wrldtrvlr123

    wrldtrvlr123 Occasional commenter

    Amazing, yet not surprising.
    Actually, you are not paying to be placed in a job, as they make no guarantees of that. You are paying to be in their CV database, have access to their school database and to attend a job fair. Oh, they also charge YOU and the SCHOOL if you actually land a job.
    Yet, somehow many people feel it is worthwhile and are quite happy to actually be hired for international teaching positions and/or find quality candidates for their schools. Sometimes you get what you pay for (although they are far from perfect).
     
  5. Doesn't the fee include attendance to a fair? So is that not what you are paying for along with their extensive information about different schools? I'm pretty sure the schools are more than aware that they charge teachers looking for a job to register. It's not as if they hide the fact.

    There are other agencies that don't charge a fee however they don't seem to attract as many schools.
     
  6. mrjack

    mrjack New commenter

    So what are the other agencies then? I've considered search but here they dont have many for Hong Kong.
     
  7. Some of the more well known agencies are CIS/COIS, Tieonline and joyjobs.
    Smaller agencies are seekteachers and eteach international.
    You could also try gabbitas which is an agency for British private schools but also does overseas jobs. Also have a look on IBO website for job openings. Whether any of them have a position for you in HK is another matter. If you really don't like your current job you may have to widen your search as it's so late in the year. Good luck.
     
  8. Oh I forgot ISS.
     
  9. As far as I am aware there is no charge for Search Associates if you are based in the UK. They are good for jobs in many places in Asia, but probably very few jobs in HK. The other main agency is the through the COIS, but it tends to have many of the same jobs and will also have very few jobs in HK. The best place to look for jobs in HK is the ESF website, but there is also a UWC school and a few others. Most of them will advertise on TES. Just search for HK international schools and have a look on their websites. You could send your CV into ESF and into individual schools?
    HK jobs will be competitive, which means that you should have good experience and qualifications and a well put together letter and CV for competitive subjects. If you are a Maths, Physics or other shortage subject teacher then it is likely to be easier. It is probably too late now to get a decent HK job for August 2011, unless something unusual has happened. Jobs should be advertised again from early Sept....happy hunting!
     
  10. It is illegal, it was I what said it. If you are in the UK then it is free, they aren't allowed to charge. Like I said before it was the database that was valuable to me. I just tried to log in to see what the go is in Hong Kong, but can't remember my login details, oh dear.
     
  11. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    Not very even-handed treatment of their candidates is it?

    I wonder whether this would change for the whole of Europe, if someone brought things to the attention of the European Court in Strasbourg. As far as I'm aware, there are laws relating to equal opportunity of employment, and people who can't afford to pay Search Associate's fee are being excluded from being considered for the jobs on their books.

    If my reasoning is valid, then charging this fee is illegal under European law, AND those who have paid it are entitled to a REFUND, and would have an excellent chance of getting it back if they took the matter to court.

    Finally, I wouldn't be at all surprised it this fee could also be challenged under US, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand employment legislation.
     
  12. wrldtrvlr123

    wrldtrvlr123 Occasional commenter

    Well, the bottom line is that sometimes you need to invest a bit of money to secure something of value. So stop fighting it, crack open that wallet, let that flock (?) of moths fly free and get yourself a proper job. [​IMG]
     
  13. To the best of my knowledge there is no Search office in NZ. Given that, exactly how do you think that Kiwi teachers would have a **** show in hell of challenging the registration requirements of a foreign agency under NZ law?
     
  14. Sad to hear that, I was only commenting on my own experiences of course, I tend to confine my search to one agency these days and so far have not come across any of the infamous schools on there. I do think that agencies and of course TES could quite easily bring some of these schools to task, if they had nowhere to advertise their vacancies they would be forced to clean up their acts.
    Anyway hope you manage to get a better school next time!
     
  15. But if a Kiwi applies to Search, which is based elsewhere, surely it is the teacher doing business in another country and not the other way around?
     
  16. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    As I said, I'm not a lawyer, but almost any business deal is in fact a contract [of some kind] between two parties, and so it cuts both ways. Think of some of the things you can buy on the internet. The sale of the item might be quite legal in the vendor's country, but it could be illegal both for the vendor to offer the item for sale in the purchaser's country and for the purchaser to attempt to obtain the item, or just one of these, in either direction.

    Of course, you are absolutely right about the difficulty of enforcing laws across frontiers.
     
  17. momentofclarity

    momentofclarity New commenter

    I have used both CIS and Search. Both are reputable companies that follow the law as applicable in the country the applicants apply from. Being Canadian I had to pay the registration fee, UK colleagues who registered did not. Its the nature of the beast. In the grand scheme of things $200 is a nominal amount that should not stop you from using an agency. As another poster said, just suck it up and pay the cash, otherwise you are going to be stuck on the circuit of schools not willing/able to pay the money required to advertise through them. I agree that there are some dodgy schools in Search (Less, but still some in CIS), but really after attending the BKK job fair with Search it became abundantly clear that if you want to work for a good school you need to be looking through at least one of these major agencies (not teachanywhere etc).

    Cheers,
    MoC

    P.S. @DG - please stop comparing your experience in IT to the education sector, they are not similar and your experience clearly has little resemblance to reality.
     
  18. I know of some jobsin beijing and Chengdu for experienced Early Years teachers, working with Multiple Intelligences in some top-awarded schools. Let me know if you're interested in hearing more: multipleintelligencesuk@gmail.com
     
  19. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    If memory serves me rightly, Search Associates was into computer and executive recruitment long before it stuck its thumb in the education pie. So do you really think they totally revamped their business model just for the education sector?

    To make a further comparison, another reason for using agencies is you can verbally say things like no blacks, no women, and no one over 40 to your agency contact, who will willingly comply. Agents told me about this going on when I worked in I.T.. Of course I'm sure MC will insist that nothing like this ever happens in the hallowed education sector.
     
  20. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Occasional commenter

    Both as a recruiter and a job-seeker I used Search Associates on and off from 1993 to 2003. The firm was thoroughly focused on the education sector and the people I worked with, principally the Deelmans, were headteachers of long experience. The implication that SA is a fly-by-night general recruitment outfit leaping belatedly onto the educational gravy is utter nonsense.
    Far from 'willingly complying' with the unacceptable I am aware of several occasions when SA has declined the business of schools which mistreated teachers. I have known Margaret Deelman, at considerable personal inconvenience, to intervene and rescue a teacher who was being victimised.
    David, you increasingly come over as a sour and cynical individual who is ever eager to blame his own failures on anyone but himself. Short term popularity is easy to achieve if you cosy up to the kiddies but long term respect, which has nothing at all to do with hatred, is much harder to sustain.
     

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