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NQT year overseas

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by shubble92, Feb 1, 2016.

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  1. shubble92

    shubble92 New commenter

    Hi,
    I'm just wondering if anybody has any information related to teaching overseas if you are an NQT.
    I am currently completing my PGCE year and have seen a job advertised in Dubai that I would be interested in, however I've heard through the grapevine that you won't get your NQT status if you complete your first year abroad?

    I have researched however I cant seem to find a clear answer, I thought I would come here for advice as well.

    Thank you in advance for responses and advice, it is very much appreciated!
     
  2. Kartoshka

    Kartoshka Established commenter

    Once you complete your PGCE you will have QTS. This means you can work as a teacher.

    If you choose to work in a UK state school, you will begin your induction year (NQT year). During your induction year you have a mentor, a 10% reduced timetable, targets to meet to ensure that you meet all the standards and pass induction. It is a little like a second training year. You need to pass this year in order to continue teaching in state schools.

    If you choose to work abroad (or in a UK private school), you will not begin your induction year. When (if) you choose to return to the UK and work in a state school, you will begin your induction year then. However, you may find that, if you spend several years abroad, it could be difficult to find a job on your return, as schools will prefer someone with more recent training.
     
  3. tyler durden

    tyler durden New commenter

    Check whether the school has been BSO inspected (and passed) as if they have then they will have the ability to sign off your induction year.

    If not then you won't be able to complete it.
     
    JL48 likes this.
  4. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Aside from whether schools will actually let you do your induction year etc, you may find that not many schools will be interested in you until you have at least a few years' experience under your belt. Knowing that, don't get your hopes up too much about a school taking you on and I would even be very wary of any schools who will employ you. You've got to ask why they would employ you instead of someone with experience. The answer is usually that the person with experience won't work there. Then you have to ask why to that.
     
  5. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    You will not be regarded as a "Fully Qualified Teacher" in some of the more western countries for visa applications until you have completed your NQT year.

    Having your QTS and NQT does make a difference in many ways, obtaining an Expat Mortgage is one example. Simply by showing my basic A4 letter of NQT completion from the DfE it proved that I am a Professional person and eligible for a loan. Completing Visa application for different countries is far easier as again I can prove I am a registered Professional in the UK.

    I am one of the handful of British Citizens who can counter sign UK passport applications and renewals as again I am fully qualified teacher.

    In some schools in China now you are called a "Tutor" if you have not completed your NQT and as a "Teacher" if you have!

    I always recommend that you complete your NQT before you attempt to work abroad as you never know where fate may take you.
     
  6. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    as a counter point to this, i never completed my NQT year (could not get a full time position back then to do it). I have been teaching overseas for years and have not encountered anyone who have ever asked about it. Admittedly i did do a 4 year B.ed with QTS, and not a PGCE. i am not sure if that makes a difference. i have also only worked in IB schools and not under the British curriculum. all i am saying is, its not impossible, but if you plan on ever returning to the UK then you will need it.
     
  7. davidbowiefan

    davidbowiefan Established commenter

    A PGCE also gives QTS, revan66. There's no difference in that respect between a PGCE and a BEd.

    This question has been asked every few weeks since I started reading the forum several years ago. If the OP takes the time to search for responses they will find the vast majority of replies are the same as those given here. You won't get your NQT status for the simple reason that you aren't in an NQT post so you won't be able to qualify as a teacher. Why would you want to quit your training halfway through?
     
  8. ejclibrarian

    ejclibrarian Established commenter Community helper

    Perhaps we need a 'sticky' on this topic. Might save time and repeated questions.
     
  9. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Of course it really does not matter if you have not completed your NQT year in a school in the UK, provided that you never try to get a job back in Dear Old Blighty. Just stay overseas for the rest of your teaching career. The bad news, of course, is thay this old hippo has mo way of seeing into the future and so it might be better to do a year or two in the UK before venturing abroad.

    When I was in Qatar, I came across several Scottish lassies who said that, for them, the choice was between teaching overseas or being unemployed. Not much of a choice.

    On this forum, you will find several postings that say that a few years of teaching in an international school will actually be an advantage when you return to the UK. It will make you stand out and give you a broader perspective. I must say that I am very sceptical about this.
     
  10. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    A former Headteacher of the UK grammar school where I was Deputy in the 1980s was appointed from an overseas post. He did his NQT year as headmaster (it was called ‘probation’ in those days). But of course the hippo (third most deadly species in Africa) is spot on: most denizens of the Foggy Rock regard time ‘abroad’ as an aberration rather than an advantage. This goes as much for the education professionals as it does for ordinary sensible folk who worry how we could ever recover from all those missed episodes of Corrie and East Enders. If I read correctly, even the Dude, that doyen of overseas HTs, has had to take a step down in order to reintegrate into the English system. Most of us may say ‘never again’ but, if the oil and Dirhams ever cease to flow, that comp in Durham might start to seem attractive.
     
  11. lottee1000

    lottee1000 Occasional commenter

    There is a list here of all the COBIS schools which have passed a BSO inspection and can therefore sign off your NQT year.

    http://www.cobis.org.uk/page.cfm?p=423

    As many others have said though, I would recommend getting two years in the UK behind you, to widen the choice of jobs available to you abroad.
     
  12. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    It would also be helpful, lottee1000, if you could include a list of fee-paying parents who would be happy for their child to be taught by someone who has only just left teacher training college. Yes, lottee1000, these COBIS schools do have some special dispensation re. NQTs, but I do not think that these 60-odd schools really would prefer to employ NQTs, as opposed to experienced teachers with proven track records, excellent references and good degrees. Of course they might be happy to snap up an NQT who teaches Physics or Chemistry, but mere mortals like the rest of us may not be so fortunate. When one bears in mind the huge and ever-growing number of international schools throughout the world, sixty is not very many.

    On a different tack, I would guess that very few PGCE and BEd courses are orientated towards IB, but the IB is precisely what the majority of international schools are doing these days.
     
    davidbowiefan likes this.
  13. lottee1000

    lottee1000 Occasional commenter

    Hippo, I bow to your superior experience, however I have worked in two of these BSO schools and both have hired NQTs every year in a range of subjects, including things like PE which we are always told there is a surplus of applicants for. I'm not privy to why they are hired, cynically I'd say because they are cheaper or can be mined for info about what the latest teaching buzzwords are, hopefully it's because they are the best candidates regardless of experience. I would agree though that surely they should prefer experienced and proven good teachers.

    As for parents, again only in my experience, often parents don't care about qualifications or experiences if the teacher is liked by the students, should you get on the wrong side of a group though then suddenly these become big issues with parents demanding answers, or changes of teaching staff in extreme cases.

    And regarding the IB, I can't imagine it is mentioned much on PGCE courses as they are trying to produce teachers for the UK and don't want to lose staff abroad, I remember my tutor would write off people who applied to private schools, I don't think anyone dared mention international schools!

    Anyway, as I said before, I wouldn't recommend doing an NQT year overseas, even at a BSO, as the experience gained in the UK is invaluable, even if you never want to return. I also doubt many international schools can offer much in the way of support and useful induction, although that can vary massively in the UK as well, of course.
     
  14. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Hmm. Yesterday I was lazing in the pool and looking at the palm trees gently waving. Yes, it is a tough life, being an international teacher. Getting sunburnt is a real problem here in the Philippines, as Mrs Hippo and I have discovered during our Chinese New Year holiday. Then I had a message from an old friend who has left Qatar and is now teaching back in the UK. Yes, it was the same, depressing and all-too-familiar story: badly behaved students, large classes and overstressed teachers. How predictable!

    So let's return to the much-discussed topic of NQTs for a moment. Yes, I am sure that a lot of what lottee1000 has written is absolutely true. There may well be some educational advantages for an international school when it comes to hiring NQTs, as the NQTs are probably going to be more or less up to date with the latest educational developments, although some might call them "fads" or "crazes". For some schools, including my present school in China, this is something that is quite important and it certainly has value if you are thinking of returning to the UK in two or three years' time. As for me, I think that it is time for another swim. Xinnian Kuaile!
     
    ampash likes this.
  15. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

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    ejclibrarian likes this.
  16. percy topliss

    percy topliss Occasional commenter

    I have just had a look at the list of COBIS schools which somebody put on here. There are no schools in Thailand, not even the disreputable ones for which I am thankful. I worked with someone in China who came out to fill a post that came up very late and had just finished her degree. I have no doubt that she was a great teacher but the "bug" caught her and she is now, a decade later, in Singapore. I wonder what would happen if she tried to get a job back in the UK? Would anyone notice? Or care? There is, after all, a piece on the shortage of teachers in the UK.
    Interesting conundrum.

    Perce
     
  17. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Well, is there a shortage of teachers in the UK or not? Opinion seems to be a bit divided on this one, percy old chap. Maybe in some areas and some subjects there is indeed a shortage, but the overall picture is very uneven.

    My old friend from Doha days, whom I mentioned earlier, had all kinds of problems getting a teaching job back in the UK. Yes, there may be some dodgy international schools who are eager to snap up NQTs because they are cheaper, but what about schools back in the UK? Are they always keen to employ teachers who have done two (or ten) years overseas? I really do not think that teaching a class of polite and hard-working Chinese students is a good way to prepare for the rigours of teaching in the UK. When I was in Qatar, my class of twenty students were often going off to their Islamic Studies or their Arabic lessons, so this meant that I had a free lesson or two and I could catch up with some marking or planning. When they had PE, it was usually a specialist PE teacher who took them for the lesson and not me. Primary teachers in the UK do not have these luxuries, alas, when teaching a class of 40+.

    On the other hand, I did hear that the head of the school for ex-alcoholics just outside Cairo has been in a punch-up with an irate Egyptian parent, so maybe there are some similarities between international schools and those in the UK.
     
  18. percy topliss

    percy topliss Occasional commenter

    Indeed Hippo, from what I understand there is a major shortage of Maths and Science secondary teachers. The person to whom I allude was a primary teacher albeit in a top paying collegiate school in Shanghai. I just wonder if she were to stay away for ten or fifteen years, would anyone notice? Is this not thing actually a legal requirement?
     
  19. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Here in Shanghai the only qualification you need to teach in an international school is a BSc/BA, there is no requirement for any teaching qualification. You will find a large proportion of teachers completing the iPGCE/PGCEi (depending on which university they are studying) and this has no QTS attached. Somehow the "i" gets lost when qualification are mentioned.

    Does a iPGCE with no QTS = a PGCE with QTS

    Does PGCE QTS+NQT = PGCE QTS

    In Shanghai the HIGH cost of tuition fees has no relationship to the qualifications of the teachers in the school. I can point to many a teacher who started their teaching profession helping out as a classroom assistant when the school was short staffed.
    Some other cities in China have started to ask for teaching qualification due to child protection issues that have occurred recently.

    Is there a need to have any teaching qualification what so ever to teach in an international school. With no requirements in the UK for Academies or Free Schools to employ qualified teachers did I waste years of my life getting QTS+NQT?

    In the "Golden Days" all teachers had BSc/BA/BEd + PGCE/QTS + NQT before they left the UK to teach on the international circuit. Every teacher in a school was assumed by parents to have these gold standard qualifications and many parents today are still under the deluded idea that this is true.

    I still prefer to have my little letter from the DfE in my document safe.
     
  20. percy topliss

    percy topliss Occasional commenter

    I must say that when I worked in Shanghai, to the best of my knowledge, all of the teachers at the College where I worked had teaching qualifications, I was just mentioning that this particular teacher did not carry out their NQT year in the UK. I know that there were other much more dodgy schools, your ex one included that was a little less picky but then if you are not going to pay your staff' wages, or their medical insurance, housing and bonuses then why bother checking if they are, indeed, teachers?
     

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