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NQT. Secondary. Pay promotion?

Discussion in 'Secondary' started by Sanz1981, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Sanz1981

    Sanz1981 Occasional commenter

    Hi all

    I'm in my NQT year at an academy. I teach English, specialism literature.

    I have BA MA (before everyone started doing them just because they could as the loans came in, hence devaluing education) from Russel group unis.

    In my pay review I would like to ask for an increase in pay. I shouldn't be on the same pay as someone who studied film studies from teeside uni (which is the current case atm).

    If this is the case, employers shouldn't have 'experience and qualifications in their spec'

    I am technically most qualified in the department. The students love my knowledge and how I transfer it to them.

    We champion education to students but we're not compensated appropriately.
  2. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Get You!
    peggylu, DYNAMO67, wanet and 2 others like this.
  3. Sanz1981

    Sanz1981 Occasional commenter

    Not helpful, Carrie. This is a serious matter to me.
  4. install

    install Star commenter

    Mmmm....I think CarrieV is being very helpful and dropping a BIG HINT....:cool:
  5. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    All you need to do then is get etter results than everyone else.
  6. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Ok, seriously!

    1. Did you negotiate your pay at interview?
    2. Did you accept the post knowing the salary offered?
    3. Are you a better TEACHER than the member of staff who studied film studies?
    4. Are your results better ( do you even have any!)
    5. What have you against Teesside University ( note the spelling!) It's very nice there-my son went!

    6. When you have proved you are a better teacher than others, then you can ask for more pay!
  7. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    Your school will have criteria for a pay review, which will be available on some shared drive somewhere, and your mentor will happily discuss it with you I'm sure, but you'll find that those criteria have nothing to do with your degree classification, prestige of university attended, or masters level study, because none of these things actually makes you a better teacher than another person who went to a different uni and didn't complete a masters. What you are judged on in schools is the outcomes that your students achieve.

    Your students may appreciate your knowledge right now, but surely as you're an NQT you've only been there for a couple of weeks, so they won't have even had the chance to demonstrate their understanding in their first graded assessment, will they? So I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch if I was you!

    I also don't like working with colleagues whose subject knowledge is not up to scratch, although I don't care for university and masters snobbishness. So perhaps you would be better off working at a different school, once your NQT year is complete? One school I worked at seemed to be trying to build a department of 1st class degree holders - perhaps that would be more up your street? Or perhaps you should set your sights on becoming HOD in future, so that you can lead by example?

    P.S. You are claiming educational superiority, but cannot spell 'Russell' Group, or use correct punctuation or grammar?! Perhaps you think you are more qualified than most on here, so don't need to be accurate?
    gravell, flick161, pepper5 and 3 others like this.
  8. rachelsays

    rachelsays New commenter

    You are not the ‘most qualified’ in the department. You have academic qualifications in your subject, but you are still learning how to transmit that knowledge effectively to students.

    What proof do you have that you are more effective a teacher than your colleagues because of your more impressive academic qualifications?

    • Have you seen a class through the two years of their GCSE and A Level exam course, with excellent results, above their target grades, more than once?
    • Are your KS3 classes showing greater progress than other teachers’ classes?
    • Are you able to deliver CPD to other teachers on intervention strategies, or how to stretch and challenge students, backed up by experience and results?

    I’m going to take a wild guess and say no to the above questions, as you’re only in your first year of solo teaching - in fact, your first few weeks!

    When you can do the above, you will get a pay rise, because you’ll have shown that your subject knowledge gained through a good education can be transferred to excellent teaching practice. Until you can show that your education makes you a better teacher, you’ve not got any right or reason to ask for more pay.

    Also, I would recommend that you check your attitude of intellectual snobbery and give your colleagues some respect. You could have a PhD from Oxbridge in your subject but be useless at teaching it – subject knowledge is only part of what makes a successful teacher. You're still at the very early stages of learning the craft of teaching and you'll soon find that knowing everything there is to know about Shakespeare won't get you very far with Year 9 on a Friday afternoon. Rather than judging your colleagues on your perception of the quality of their university education, I would suggest you use your 10% NQT time to get into their classrooms and see what teaching strategies you can learn from them. Education is all very well, but there's no substitute for experience!
    Idiomas11, JAOD, gravell and 7 others like this.
  9. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    I would also like to add please can you keep this attitude away from the students - Y12/13 can put themselves under such pressure, with ridiculous ideas that their life will be over if they don't get into Oxbridge, so they really don't need teachers looking down on them and the universities they apply to or are accepted to.
    flick161, kearl1, pepper5 and 5 others like this.
  10. rachelsays

    rachelsays New commenter

    Absolutely - an excellent point. I might also add that it is very damaging for sixth formers to be told that the only criterion they should base their university choices on is academic reputation, which is fuelled by just the type of thinking the OP is demonstrating. Three years is a long time to be living and studying somewhere, and I have seen too many students write down the names of the six most illustrious universities on their UCAS forms without giving any thought to how they will feel to live hundreds of miles from home, in a busy city/in the middle of nowhere, being part of a huge/tiny department, doing a course with no opportunity to specialise, etc. Sadly I know too many people who chose universities solely based on their position in a league table and lived to regret it.

    The colleague who went to Teesside that the OP mentions may have got 3 As at A level but absolutely fell in love with the university on a visit and chose it over somewhere more illustrious. University choices aren't all relative to academic achievement, and students should not feel pressured into applying to a narrow pool of institutions thanks to intellectual snobbery by those supposed to give them broad and balanced advice.
  11. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    You may have a MA from wherever. Clearly not intelligent enough to realise that you are supposed to negotiate pay BEFORE accepting the job though.

    I can only assume this post is a wind up. If not, I really think you have to change your attitude.
  12. krisgreg30

    krisgreg30 Occasional commenter

    A number of my own personal pet hates coming up here such as university snobbery and the idea that a 1st class degree or MA make you a better teacher. There are so many other factors that will decide whether someone is a great teacher or not, one of them being the ability to empathise with pupils from different backgrounds who won't be going to an 'elite' university.

    On another note, be careful what you wish for. If, for some miraculous reason, they agreed to a pay rise before you have even proved yourself in teaching then they will also be expecting more for their money than they would at the minute. Would you be able to justify it with amazing results and leading developments in school?
    pepper5 likes this.
  13. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Of course you can ask for an increase in your pay review. Whether you get one or not depends on the quality of your work at the school - it is most unlikely that they will adjust your pay for your qualifications, which would have been taken account of in your original job offer. In any case, most schools are inclined to start people above the bottom of the scale based on their experience after university, not on their degrees, which show nothing about the ability to teach.

    Sorry, but your contempt for your colleague appals me. A degree from Teeside does not make them an inferior teacher to you. When I started teaching, I could have claimed that my degree made me better qualified than my colleagues, but I don't share your arrogant attitude.
    pepper5 and GirlGremlin like this.
  14. GirlGremlin

    GirlGremlin Occasional commenter

    The original post has to be a wind up! :D Surely no one can be THAT full of self-importance....
  15. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    One would really hope not, but...
    secretteacher2357 and pepper5 like this.
  16. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    Well done for getting into a university and getting good qualifications. well done for getting to the start of what could be a successful teaching career.

    I too had a bit of a culture shock when I started teaching. All of a sudden that moderately prestigious university and those well equipped research labs counted for nothing, all that mattered was my ability to devise ways of persuading what was then the 4th year (year 10) to learn something.
    I also discovered that people who went to minor universities, polytechnics and even worse teacher training colleges actually could hack it, had learned things and could persuade the kids to learn (often better than me). It was a long hard slog of more than a decade to move from earning a pittance to have very much of a discretionary income.

    Unless you can climb the greasy pole fast, do not expect to earn big bucks in teaching and do not expect people to defer to you because of your MA.
    If you want a pay rise, look at what you can contribute to teaching and learning in your department, look at what leadership in schools entails (it's about enabling colleagues and pupils to work and learn better, not complex analysis of literature).

    Good luck
    GirlGremlin and pepper5 like this.
  17. Alldone

    Alldone Senior commenter

    Pah - only am MA, and not from Oxbridge either. At my Indie school many of the teachers had PhDs; MAs were two a penny. In my Chemistry department most of my colleagues had PhDs - heck, even the HT had an MA from Oxford. Did any of it matter - not one bit. I came from industry and was recruited because of this experience. I think the OP is full of his own (misplaced) importance. How many on here reading this will be thinking, thank goodness I don't have to work with the OP.
    GirlGremlin and pepper5 like this.
  18. muso2

    muso2 Occasional commenter Community helper

    Going back to your original question, I'd be surprised if an NQT had a pay review - you wouldn't normally be subject to the same performance management review as longer-serving teachers because a) there is very little to review yet, and b) NQTs are subject to a different appraisal system during their induction year.

    So you are probably looking at raising this at this time next year when you have PM. At that point, you will have a year's teaching experience and evidence of your contribution to the school and results. You could mention your MA if it has contributed to your successes, but this would probably have been more appropriate when you were initially recruited. It is possible to go straight from M1 to, say, M3 (not that these really exist any more), depending on your school's pay policy.
    Piranha likes this.
  19. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    If you are talking about a pay review for next year, then you may have achievements which warrant asking for a bigger rise than would usually be the case, which might be from M1 to M3 if the school uses the old pay points. However, it is unlikely that your MA will have any bearing on the decision - it is your impact at the school that will count.
    muso2 likes this.
  20. muso2

    muso2 Occasional commenter Community helper

    It also depends how financially well-off the school is. I've worked in a school where TLRs were handed out a bit like lollipops to encourage retention of newer staff, but I think schools now would be reluctant to increase outgoings above the norm unless they had recruitment issues.

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