1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

NQT at COBIS Schools

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by SMT dude, May 21, 2012.

  1. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    This will be in effect from September 2012. The news as announced on their web site needs an update, but here it is:
    http://www.cobis.org.uk/news/cobis-update-following-the-nqt-statutory-induction-dfe-consultation.html
    Note that only accredited COBIS member schools can do this - that is, schools that have been inspected by a UK inspectorate approved by OFSTED. There are a many schools which are associate members of COBIS but have not yet undegone such an inspection. You can sort the sheep from the goats on the COBIS web site where you will see 'executive members' and 'associate members', the latter not being accredited.
     
  2. whereflowersgrow

    whereflowersgrow New commenter

    Hello, I am in a similar situation - I will be starting NQT induction in Sept at a COBIS school. I've had email confirmation from someone at the DfE that NQT induction can take place from Sept 2012 in overseas schools inspected by an inspecorate accredited by the Secretary of State (like COBIS) and that this will be fully transferable back in the UK. Phew. However, when I checked Statutory Guidance on Induction for Newly Qualified Teachers in England' (PDF online, amended April 2012) it explicitly states that induction cannot be completed in any overseas schools. So, it's a bit confusing. I'm waiting from clarification from the education.gov.uk email address but I am assuming/hoping in the meantime that they just haven't updated the Statutory Guidance document.
     
  3. aridion

    aridion New commenter

    Unfortunately the school that I mentioned is an associate member of COBIS, thus can't do the NQT induction year.

    Whereflowersgrow, keep us posted about what you find out. It is quite interesting.
     
  4. whereflowersgrow

    whereflowersgrow New commenter

    Hi,

    I had another email from the DfE and they said that you definitely can do your NQT induction in 'suitable' overseas British Schools, and that the notes for guidance I mentioned before need uodating again, because they were updated before the new legislation was passed. So, good news!!!!
     
  5. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    "Fully transferable" might be a phrase that means different things to different people.
     
  6. aridion

    aridion New commenter

    It seems that iot can only be offered at Executive members of COBIS.
     
  7. lovely.lady

    lovely.lady Occasional commenter

    I find this statement quite worrying because the school I am leaving is an Executive member of COBIS but their standards of professional development are shockingin fact non-existent! Quite how they will monitor an NQT at the pinnacle of their career when they don't and won't follow good practice from the UK!
     
  8. SMT dude

    SMT dude New commenter

    The ISI inspection through which they gained this status dates back as far as November 2007 so they are due for another going-over quite soon and the inspectors will decide whether things have gone downhill these last five years.
    And since you'll be gone by then, if they do discover a state of decline, everyone can blame it on you...
     
  9. lovely.lady

    lovely.lady Occasional commenter

    I am but a mere underling! Decline does not happen overnight nor is it the whole responsibility of just one person - maybe they also want to blame some of the other 9 or 10 people leaving this year or even the newly appointed DHT who left last year after only 1 year or even TOK supervisor who left after 1 year!!
     
  10. whereflowersgrow

    whereflowersgrow New commenter

    I think that even out of COBIS schools, only those that have passed an inspection 2011-2012 school year can offer the NQT induction, but I might have understood this incorrectly. I guess even awful schools in the UK can technically take on NQTs too.
     
  11. lovely.lady

    lovely.lady Occasional commenter

    To be fair whereflowergrow mr Hippo does offer some sound and reasonable advice. For what it is worth here's my opinion: Completing the NQT year is hectic, exhausting and at times very very difficult, plus it is getting harder! To successfully complete the NQT year fresh out of UK university whilst adapting to change in a new country/culture will be twice as hard. Yes you might have the support (hopefully) of experienced professionals and knowledgeable school owners/boards/principals however in a lot of international schools you might not have this especially those schools which are set up as a business. For those 'not for profit' schools you might find your NQT mentor lacks up to date knowledge and is only there to make money/finishing off for retirement and really can't be bothered guiding the NQT towards best UK practice.
    Yes there are always those who are fresh from university courses (B.Ed; PGCE etc etc) who are full of enthusiasm and up to date knowledge but when faced with colleagues who are completely out of date (as you suggest most of us old time international circuit teachers are) then you are simply going to pick up on bad habits which could potentially damage your career.
    I think Mr Hippo is trying to paint the worst scae scenario here so as not to show international teaching as a bed of roses as many UK teachers believe. It is hard work - even more so than teaching in the UK (but this is my opinion). Trying to get to grips with class management, assessment, behaviour, policy development, curriculum expectations on top of everything else could equal failure and disillusionment within teaching. Of course it could all be the opposite of this 'bleak' picture - you never know your luck!
     
  12. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Thank you for your kind comments, lovely.lady.
    I am very concerned that some NQTs may decide to do their induction year overseas, even if they have the option of doing it in the UK. Okay, if you cannot get a job in the UK and then of course it makes sense to be working overseas, as opposed to being unemployed. However, it is always good to keep your options open. Quite a few young teachers plan to have a career in international schools and then their circumstances change, for all kinds of reasons. Will it then be a problem returning to the UK? Does induction in a COBIS school have the same value, in the eyes of a headteacher in the UK, as induction in a UK school? I just don't know. It would be good to hear from some UK heads and find out what they really think.
     
  13. whereflowersgrow

    whereflowersgrow New commenter

    It would indeed be good to hear what some UK heads would think. I have been able to ask one UK hesd and one UK based head of department, and they both basically said that they didn't really care where NQT induction was completed, just on teaching ability at interview. Obviously you need to have a strong application to score said interview, but that depends on so much more than where you did your NQT year.


    Lovelylady, if you read my post, I wasn't suggesting that *all* overseas teachers were out of date. I was pointing out that NQTs are pretty up to date, which could be a very good reason for overseas schools wanting to employ them. The links to recent curriculum developments required to induct NQTs in overseas schools could also be of benefit to the other staff involved in the induction. I guess overseas schools taking NQTs is another way for these schools to function more like schools back in the UK. Do you consider GCSEs and 'A' levels gained by students at overseas schools to be worth less than those gained at UK schools? Then why should NQT induction, following the same guidlines as NQT induction in the UK, be considered to be of any less value? Sure, the ability of different schools to offer successful induction will vary from school to school overseas, just as in the UK. It also depends on the inductee themselves and how good a 'fit' they are to the school.

    Anyway, the thing is, that at no point have I (or the OP) asked for opinions about for advice about whether people think it's a it's a good idea to do induction overseas. We were asking about the legislative aspect of completing an NQT induction overseas. I appreciate you guys are giving your opinion, and I'm grateful in principle for that (however in my case, both pieces of advice were pretty irrelevant as I have sound reasons for my choice to teach overseas in my induction year). Hippo I feel was putting his opinion across necessarily forcefully (as I have seen him do in other topics/forums). So, I feel it's worth pointing out to other potential NQTs overseas who may be reading this that's it's certainly not all doom. The legislation is in place for NQtT induction from Sept 2012 to take place in suitably inspected/approved schools overseas. Yes, it might get off to a bit of a bump start in its first few years, but I very much doubt it's going to be quite the disastrous career move Hippo seems to be suggesting.
     
  14. whereflowersgrow

    whereflowersgrow New commenter

    If someone could offer me some advice about how to put paragraphs in my posts, I'd be grateful!!!
     
  15. Being up to date on the latest curriculum developments, are you familiar with de Bono's Black Hat? I ask because I don't hear receptiveness.
    Using a different browser will get you your paragraph breaks.
     
  16. lovely.lady

    lovely.lady Occasional commenter

    Maybe not 'all' however you do purport that NQTs are highly qualified, full of enthusiasm and up to date so surely you must believe that current international teachers are none of these??
    What you need to remember is that the NQT year, if supported properly, is very difficult. Add to that difficulty a new culture/country, away from the personal support of friends/family then there is the possibility of added stress where it is not needed.
    You also have to remember that the availability to CPD courses is not always available. If you are going to a large group of schools - for example the boring halloween females; North London all boys or even group schools - Northern (East) Anglia; Precious stones or Company schools - Petrol/Gas owned - you might be fortunate to get to go on courses. All of which in the UK you take for granted especially in your NQT year.
     
  17. nemo.

    nemo. Occasional commenter

    Hi I also in this case the Hippo is right. Actually surely we all know that headmasters in the state system look down upon those that took induction in private schools? Even grammar schools! The argument is that an nqt needs to learn behavior management and you don't do that with 12 upper class year 9s who just demand to do extra exam papers on a Friday afternoon! Rather better to have a bottom set of 28 with many young offenders and a lot of hoodies to deal with to sharpen those behavior management skills. Teachers that I met who did induction in the former would be eaten alive in any inner city state school. You would prob just find the scattered bones around the school field ;)

    I certainly would advise against doing induction out of the UK for any teacher. And anyway surely good international schools prefer those with 5 years experience?
     
  18. In my experience, there are few international schools with the support structure in place for an NQT. I don't think Hippo is ridiculing the idea of newly qualified teachers completing their NQT year in an international school: he is simply pointing out, quite rightly, that it would not work in most places.
     
  19. whereflowersgrow

    whereflowersgrow New commenter

    I know a reasonable amount of NQTs from my course have been taken on by independent schools in the UK.
    I'm not saying that NQTs are the be-all and end all. I expect to constantly be learning and adapting in *all* the years ahead, and massively doing so during my NQT year. I just wanted to point out that they're not complete dead weights either, sometimes bringing fresh ideas and enthusiasm etc. And the opportunity to mentor an NQT could bring a bit of career development to the mentor in question, and having to follow the guidelines for NQTs and all the standards could create greater opportunity to become closer to recent curriculum developments in the UK (whether this is a good thing or bad thing is for you guys to debate - I can't comment as I don't have enough experience).
    From what I've read/researched good overseas schools do provide CDP for their staff. Is that your experience? I'm talking about good overseas schools. I know lots of people have had bad experiences with dodgy schools overseas, but hopefully the really dodgy ones won't pass the new COBIS inspections and therefore won't be able to induct NQTs. (Maybe I am placing too much faith in the COBIS inspections being rigorous enough, again I am not able to comment on this either).
    Sure, for some people, doing NQT induction in an overseas school could be a really bad move - being away from friends and family during a tough year, potentially getting less support than in some state schools (although I know NQTs in state schools who get very little support) etc etc as people have pointed out. These are important points that individuals themselves must weigh up against their own personality/character before making a decision. Some people thrive in certain situations that others fail in. You have to know yourself well, and know the school environment you're moving into (which can be difficult if you're moving into an overseas school, granted, but not impossible - depends on personal situation).
    With the legislation in place for Sept 2012, providing there are no hiccups during the transfer when/if you come back to the UK (but with DfE and LEA confirming the new legislation, hopefully hiccups will be minimal - we'll see - I am certainly a bit nervous doing this in its first year!) then I don't think most teachers who have completed their NQT induction in a good school overseas will be in any worse a situation than those who completed induction in an independent UK school in terms of *some* state headteachers looking down their nose a bit at their application. Some state headteachers might see it as a positive thing - it depends on how you justify it in your application/interview. That's some advice I've had.
    So I guess, some advice could be: just go into it with your eyes open? Listen to advice, but don't necessarily accept it as gospel - it's ok to challenge advice (no?). Weigh up the pros and cons based on your personality/personal situation. I think it's possible to have a successful NQT induction experience overseas. None of us know yet for sure anyway, because it's never been done (with the paperwork etc being transferred back to the UK). So, we'll see.
    If you guys don't scare me/chase me away from the forum before the end, I'll let you know how it goes!
     
  20. I would be really interested to know where you did your research. If you could provide links, that would be great. My overseas experience has been that CPD is patchy at best, usually non-existent, and where it has existed it has been a complete waste of time.
     

Share This Page