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non-words

Discussion in 'Primary' started by grape-juice, May 23, 2012.

  1. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    If you have read his threads you will know he gets dialogue from schools and quotes good reviews.
    His email to me says
    I am in the process of recruiting Year 6 teachers to take part in my 2012/13 Key Stage 2 English project
    Aren't the National Deaf Children's Society a pressure/support group for deaf children?
     
  2. If you have read his threads you will know he gets dialogue from schools and quotes good reviews.

    Now - thats very disingenuous. I happily invite anyone who has ever used my perceptual learning materials to add their views here - I have never had a bad review. I obviously sent you a copy last year alhough I cannot identify you at all - did you send me a review that I didn't post? I have also said I am happy for any teacher willing to take part, to post their views and their outcomes, not to me at all but directly to this forum, whatever these outcomes may be?. Now what could be fairer or more confident than that?


     
  3. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Your invitation wasn't from this forum Eddie ..
    and no I didn't send you a review because we only trialled it briefly as pur pupils didn't engage with it although I did send you a message explaining why and thanking you for the CD
     
  4. I just can't for the life of me work out what's so fascinating about quoting references and then counter references produced by literatti on the subject of reading who failed completely to have any impact on reading standards. Many of these people are admittedly very successful in terms of their position in academia or in the amount of money they have made but their wisdom, individually or collectively has had zero impact on literacy standards since the same number of children still leave school illiterate.
     
  5. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    then you need to look at the references because they are about neuroscience and a variety of methods of reading instruction ...even perceptual learning gets a mention
     
  6. Of course the NCDS are a pressure group. And there are others. Your quote from the NDCS doesn't give the whole picture of their position on phonics. Maybe look at their response to the phonics screening check proposal?http://www.ndcs.org.uk/document.rm?id=5606 Eddie, I think it's important to look at the links the phonics enthusiasts put in, because they have a habit of painting a partial or erroneous which needs challenging. When they claim to know all the research and name drop here, there and everywhere it is all too easy for people to think they know what they are talking about. so I have got into the habit of following them up and finding out for myself.
     
  7. *partial or erroneous picture
     
  8. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    your link doesn't go anywhere
    if they are free
     
  9. Yes, if they are free. I'm an amateur sleuth.
    Sorry about link I will try again.
     
  10. It goes to the document when I put it in. I found it by googling and finding NDCS home page, then putting ' phonics reading' into the search. That brings up lots of interesting stuff.
     
  11. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    It just opens this page when I click on it
     
  12. Oh, sorry, it isn't a hyperlink. I can't do those on my IPad. You'll need to copy and paste any links I put in.
     
  13. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I've googled it but I'm doubting I've got the correct document as it's pro the test
     
  14. ...even perceptual learning gets a mention

    Wow! EVEN perceptual learning - the very basis of all cognitive funtion. I'll be worried now in case it attracts people to write 'papers' about it. If you come across any reports of people actually working in the field and not simply theorising about it to fill space in a journal, then I will indeed be impressed.
     
  15. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

  16. Thanks for the references. I've been at this for a long time now and I have already looked at these papers one of which actually refers to Phil Kellman - an experimental psychologist who is working at the UCLA and in a group of schools in the Los Angeles area. His main focus is in the perceptual acquisition of mathematcal concepts although some of his postgrad students are reportedly working in the literacy area. So far as I am aware, I am the only person in the UK working in the narrower field of the acquisition of literacy skills.
    Anyone who takes the New Scientist may have read a piece about his work in January called '21st Century Schools'

     
  17. Yes, Msz, that is probably the right document. Indeed they are broadly in favour of the test, but if you read the whole document there are some important and revealing provisos.
     
  18. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I found it interesting they suggested encoding rather than decoding for children with hearing loss
     
  19. I was interested in the observation that children would be confused by having to read nonwords despite the use of a monster/alien picture, because their understanding of the instructions for this part of the test and the explanation of the alien scenario and the nonwords element would not necessarily be good. The task of understanding this would be an extra task on top of the decoding. Additionally I was interested that the NDCS response recommended that children practise reading nonwords in preparation for the test because of the normal teacher emphasis on every word on the page having a meaning. Obviously this 'every word has a meaning' approach would be very important for a child with a hearing impairment, as indeed children with EAL, because of the tendency for them to tune into content words rather than connecting and 'grammar' words.
     
  20. What concerns me about all this, is the fact that (as a Year 6 teacher) many children already do not use capital letters for proper nouns. Surely if the 'nonsense word' is the name of an alien it should have a capital letter!
    As with all forms of testing- there will be teaching to test. It would be 'unfair' to not expose children to the idea of 'nonsense words', before removing them to a room to be tested!
     

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