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No training Bursary for ICT teacher training from 2011

Discussion in 'Computing and ICT' started by AlainPerdu, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. I see Mr Gove has followed through:
    From £9K to zero in one step. I think that confirms our worst suspicions. We are no longer a Proper Subject. It suggests that the number of ICT teachers needed in future will be very small - so goodbye to compulsory subject. Mind if you look at a few recent OfSTED ICT subject inspections, it seems a lot of schools were struggling to deliver ICT for all. Neat solution then, but what about the pupils in all this?.
  2. jazz2

    jazz2 New commenter

    I didn't know ICT trainees got £9K, but I don't understand why they ever did.
    So you reckon "proper subjects" still get 9K and subjects which aren't "proper" don't?
    At least the thread on Opinion made some sense, being a discussion of teacher training in general. I can't think of any reason why ICT in particular should get funding, and I don't believe anyone can give me a reason that would convince me it matters more than other subjects.

  3. Khashoggi

    Khashoggi New commenter

    No it doesn't, it just suggets that they won't get a bursary. If you look at the full letter, you will see that the total number of ICT places is 805 for 2011/12. That is more than most subjects have been allocated (including the Ebac History & Geography). Only Maths, English, Science and MFL have significantly higher numbers - which is probably the general pattern year on year. It may no longer be compulsory, but If ICT is to disappear from the curriculum, then why would there be any allocated places for ICT next year especially as secondary rolls are falling.
  4. jweb2k

    jweb2k New commenter

    Agree. It's just recognising there isn't a need to give a bursary for ICT as either it's no longer a shortage subject or they realise a lot of ICT professionals (and non-ICT professionals....) will be losing their jobs and looking to move into teaching in the near future!!
  5. No surprise that numbers training to teach are right down, then (as reported in last weeks TES).
  6. Training_2_Teach

    Training_2_Teach New commenter

    It'll hopefully stop **** teachers getting into the profession. sick of incompetent teachers teaching ICT, and non ict specialists leading departments e.g. ex business studies teachers
  7. Very poor and is probably a false economy; we live in a knowledge society and to return to economic growth Britain is going to have to be competitive, technologically savvy, cutting edge and progressive. We need our next generation to be taught these skills in a global world. This could be an expensive own goal from the Tory led coalition. ICT is not a proper subject? Get real! Not only is it a proper subject it is a full set of subjects including: Computer Science, Applied Computer Science, ICT, Software applications, web development, digital media, database applications and on and on. Most other subjects need to embrace ICT and rather than splinter the curriculum and squabbling we need to look at all the inter dependencies that exist; that's where the strength will come from. Meanwhile will this decision put off the best potential teachers? Those graduating with already high student debt who probably don't want to add any more? And those thinking of a career in teaching with rich experience in industy who will be put off my not having any of their skills valued? Time will tell...
  8. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

    I am not going to bite as an ex business studies/economics teacher myself, but its also interesting to note hat the guy I took over from used to teach computing A level rather successfully. We are about the only school in the area to do so becasue no-one in the area has the skill set to teach it. His degree was chemistry.
  9. I've only worked in one school that taught the Computing 'A' level and I was only needed for a year to get the last year 13s through. The school then went down the GNVQ route.The policy will have no real impact on the quality of teachers, except, perhaps, to deter people coming from a job who need the bursary to help with the mortgage.
  10. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12326688
    In the article above one of the recommendations is for computer science to be taught in secondary school. Note the article examines Maths and Physics as well.
    I do not understand how the government expects students to learn proper computer skills, that will be beneficial to them in the real world whether it is low end or high end computer skills, when ICT is being dropped in the pecking order and they are not attracting people from the computing industries to teach. My last crop of PGCE students were very disappointing, none of them specialised in any particular area of ICT and one was doing teaching because they had been made redundant and could not get another job in their industry. At the other end of the scale when I get my students in Year 8, they struggle with the concept of saving. "Just press Save. No not Save As that is something different, Save. No don't save it there it needs to go in a logical place so you can find it later. In a folder. No, no. You need to make a folder." And so the conversation continues.
    I think ICT will make a come-back when they get a generation who cannot type (and if they do it is in txt spk), think that Google owns the Internet, have 0% knowledge about the importance of saving with good filenames in appropriate places and only know how to play games and use social networks to communicate.
  11. I can partly understand why Gove has done this, as i'm not sure general ICT is a shortage anymore. However, computing is a shortage of the worst kind, as because there is no legislative need for it, if there is no expertise it just gets dropped, which means the market for it dissapears meaning there is no need to run PGCE's in it, meaning there is further dwindling expertise in it. So I agree with the report quoted above that Computingshould be given more prominence on the NC and there should be a larger allocation of PGCE places for it, with bursaries. Or, there should be ICT bursaries, but not compulsory ones, only for people with either computer science background, or preferably experience inthe computing industry.
    It's easy to say this as I fit that bill. However I also know that I am doing my PGCE this year, and there is no way I could have done it next year.
  12. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    We all know what the collalition thinks of the computer industry by looking back at the budget and seeing that games designers didn't get the tax breaks they were after to boost their £1 Billion per year business and make it as competative as the US and Japan.
    They also see the hang overs caused by piddly poor project management of civil service IT projects and just see that we cost them money. We don't, it's the money grabbing private companies that realise they can wring the public purse for as much as they can get and get away with it.
    And the global recession means that IT professionals are being realised from all sorts of companies, IT professionals are assumed to have high salaries and therefore they can afford to pay for their own re-training as teachers.
    These things are cyclical. We've needed teachers so we got the busary, now we don't so you don't get it. When the numbers fall (again) as IT professionals join up and realise it's not what they thought and leave or the up-turn means they leave teaching to go back to well paid jobs, then the shortage will be back and we'll get it again.
    Just bad luck for those who want to do IT PGCE straight from Uni.
  13. This is, unfortunately, the category I fall into. I have just totted things up and after the PGCE I am looking at owing around £22k in tuition fee/maintenance loans.
    Whilst the bursary would have been a nice thing to have, it would have been a godsend in paying off a chunk of the money I already owe, half of it would have gone on the PGCE and the other half on making a start at paying some of the costs of my UG degree off.
    Thanks Mr Gove.
    I will continue to apply for the course for next year, after I graduate this summer and stick with it, as I know that teaching is what I want to do. Not on a whim or because I can't get a job doing something else, therefore use teaching as a fall-back, but because I feel I have something to offer the profession and the sort of qualities that are suited to teaching. I enjoy working with young people through my voluntary work and I am of the opinion that whilst teaching, like any profession, has its low points, it is a unique and fulfilling career for those who want it.
    I could quite easily apply for a graduate programme at a blue-chip company and be earning £25k with steep increases after that. But no, instead I am choosing a career in teaching because amongst many of its assets it allows you to contribute to society at the coal face and gain job satisfaction from the success of your pupils.
    So thank you Mr Gove, for scrapping the bursary, as others have said, there will come a time where the shortfall occurs again and bursaries reintroduced. What is shocking is the complete withdrawl of it as opposed to a reduction.
    I just hope there are those people out there be it university graduates or professionals who have the nerve to stick it out. At least one positive from this will be that those who do make it through the other side are more likely to be the passionate about the subject and who actually value the profession to a greater degree than those looking to use teaching as a fall-back because of lack of industry vacancies or because they like the look of the bursary.

  14. autismuk

    autismuk New commenter

    Don't you think this is sensible behaviour ? *** should the government pay big wodges of cash to do courses to produce teachers that people don't want ?
    The fact that you don't like not receiving a big wodge of cash doesn't make it a poor decision.
    One of the major problems with TTA is that there is no distinction between in demand and not ; most obviously in Primary.
  15. Big Wodges of cash as you call it is exactly what the Subject needs but of course this is the very reason it has been chopped. Nothing to do with "****" teachers but down to "****" Government ministers who neither understand the subject, understand the importance for the future or able to identify good teachers from bad. Poor decisions again from Government and for those who are still studying ICT PGCE's heaven knows where those jobs are coming as to date this school year there have been a total of 4 possibilities in the whole of the West Midlands. There is of course an element of lack of expertise in the subject but this does not make a teacher **** but highlight the need for a decent CPD programs tailored to the subject needs.

  16. Current status ICT PGCE bursary

    Entry with 1st = £9000.
    With 2.1 =£5000.
    2.2 = A TDA T-shirt and a letter of thanks from Micheal Gove.

    Roll up Roll up!
  17. If money is the issue, why not apply for a graduate teaching programme, you get unqualified teaching salary for the whole year! That's more than the bursary and as you are in the school for longer (you are in on 1st day of term in sept, until last day in July) you are getting more experience in the classroom! Majority of my colleagues think that nqt's who were trained on the Gtp are more competent than a pgce! But then I have worked with some brilliant pgce students; suppose it depends on the person! I am bias, as I came out of uni, wanting to do ITT but couldn't afford my rent etc if I did the conventional route! I found there were quite a few Gtp providers out there but competition to get on is tough, you have to have experience of working in a school, with young people or industry experience
  18. autismuk

    autismuk New commenter

    Does the bursary do this ?
    The reason for the big wodges of cash is shortage. There is not a shortage of ICT teachers. I'm not sure there ever was, except in areas which are expensive
    Which kind of shows the point up. The money should be redirected towards getting people to work in high cost areas.


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