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No shouting schools...

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Nobother, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. Nobother

    Nobother New commenter

    Does anyone have any experience of none shouting schools...can raising your voice be confused with shouting? We've had a lot of members of staff leave our school due to this policy (one called the policypnamby pamby) While I don't condone shouting at individuals, as a collective in a whole school is it ever acceptable. Any advice for controlling general rowdiness without shouting? I'm not a teacher so have little respect or "power".
     
    pepper5 and grumpydogwoman like this.
  2. -myrtille-

    -myrtille- Occasional commenter

    I think it's silly to be this dogmatic.

    Shouting should not be overused. Speaking quietly and calmly is usually more effective. But at times, a quick burst of shouting can work.

    We use a 5-4-3-2-1 countdown to get silence in a classroom. Shouting the 5, 4... then gradually getting quieter can be useful if a class is being very loud. Or if a pupil is doing something potentially dangerous at some distance away, a shouted "NO!" gets the attention. The key is to bring it down again afterwards, not keep shouting.

    I think there's a difference between shouting for impact/to make yourself heard and shouting because you are angry. The latter is something we should avoid. Pupils can see when you've "lost it" and generally think it's hilarious.
     
    loodle1, chelsea2, snowyhead and 5 others like this.
  3. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    Shouting has its place, even at individuals on rare occasions.
     
  4. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    A loud, clear, penetrating call certainly could be interpreted as a shout. For me it's all about the context and the content.

    A very silly rule. Most rules are.
     
  5. aypi

    aypi Senior commenter

    I was in a shop the other day and a mother shouted at a toddler that was not doing anything to warrant being shouted at.
    By the time the toddler is in front of me he possibly wont react to quiet words.
     
    pepper5 and grumpydogwoman like this.
  6. aypi

    aypi Senior commenter

    I wonder how the mother would have felt if I had shouted at her for shouting at her toddler?
     
  7. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    I imagine that she would feel surprised at your lack of ability to differentiate between a parent-child relationship and a stranger-stranger one ;)
     
    pepper5 likes this.
  8. maggie m

    maggie m Lead commenter

    This nonsense has crept in where I work. There is definitely value in using shouting very sparingly. I would shout No! To a pupil about to do something dangerous in my lab.A colleague of mine , who almost never even raises his voice, had to shout for this very reason during an observation. He was ticked off as "we are a non shouting school". His response "have you heard Mr X recently?"( Welsh deputy head who can make the building shake.) No more wss said.
     
    george1963, pepper5 and ATfan like this.
  9. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If a pupil is in danger, or is threatening another pupil, then use of a loud voice (aka 'shouting') is vital to avoid injury etc. In other circumstances it should be avoided wherever possible...
     
  10. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    As someone who used to teach Science, shouting might be necessary to alert students to an imminent Health and Safety issue.

    Oh I'm sorry Jade burnt her hair in the Bunsen flame, but I was at the other side of rthe classroom and we are not allowed to shout at your daughter here.

     
  11. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    Yes, raising your voice can be confused with shouting. Sometimes, a slightly raised tone and in a firm manner is called for - never, however, shouting or screaming at students unless of course they are in danger.

    I work as a secondary school supply teacher and sometimes I do think students think I may be weak since I make it a number one rule never to shout. On occasions, I have seen teachers shout and they seem to want to use fear as a technique to get students to follow instructions.

    We are all human and once I must admit that after a very long day and even a longer week once when a student left my room without permission, I followed him out of the room down the corridor shouting "come back!". LOL. He came back some minutes later and said people "heard you shouting down the corridor". Frankly, by that point I didn't care.
     
    sabrinakat, JohnJCazorla and strawbs like this.
  12. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    If a child arrives late with both arms and their neck scribbled on in pen and then sits down and does not remove their jacket and then disrupts by giggling and nicking other people's stuff and then ignores your request to get settled and then says they cannot do the work because they don't have a pen and then keeps turning around even when you are addressing them one to one and refuses to bring you their planner to log the kit infringement as per school policy and then gets out of their seat and starts throwing chewed up bits of planner cover indiscriminately out of the window and suddenly nobody else wants to do any work because they want to see if you will deal with it and so in the end you shout Would You Please Just Focus...that is wrong because of course you have just made them ANKSHUSS and it is no wonder they didn't get the lesson if you're going to undermine them that way..
     
  13. Robberto

    Robberto Occasional commenter

    I hate it when I see/hear teachers talking incessently to kids in a negative way, shouting, putting them down etc. I think the power of the voice is amazing and kids, whole classes can be tuned like the royal philarmonic if the voice is good. (And there's a good behaviour policy in school to back it up.)
    But while I don't like shouting and avoid it, it is one tool in the tool box. To say, no shouting isn't treating well, it's limiting teachers. Sounds like nambypamby to me too. And not addressing the issue.
    Respect and consideration is what children should be shown. within that, as previous posters say, a short sharp shout can be highly effective. Followed by reasoning/explanation of the desired behaviours.
     
  14. Catjellycat

    Catjellycat Occasional commenter

    World of difference between shouting at an oik-y 15 year old and a new-to-school 5 year old, no? I'm not in favour of shouting or even particularly loud voices but needs must. A PE teacher would be pretty snookered without shouting, wouldn't they?
     
  15. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    Makes me wonder how this policy was introduced in the OP's school in the first place. Was there no consultation with staff when such a major change to school policy was planned? If consultation had occurred surely the staff would have been able to raise the objections the posters above have raised. Was it a case of some numpty SLT member trying to make a name for him/her self?
     
  16. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    Save your shouty voice for special occasions to create that 'awe and wonder' impact that so many SLTs are keen to observe.
     
  17. ld7675

    ld7675 Occasional commenter

    At my last school we had to use a silent signal to stop the class. Utter nonsense when children couldn't see you. People only used it when management were dropping in. Not something I've taken to my current job.
     
  18. pickles124

    pickles124 Established commenter

    I think it largely depends on what kind of school you work in. Is it mainstream or special needs?

    What are your recommendations for working with a group of sen children who have learning difficulties, asd and autism who are up and down like yoyos all the time, running about and trying to stand on chairs.

    I do feel like I repeat myself a lot and feel worn down by it at times. Yes I have had to take a firmer tone in my voice because you have to otherwise they will be up the wall literally.

    What do we do in these situations?
     
  19. Nobother

    Nobother New commenter

    Thanks for your opinion. I'm a dinner lady we have been informed to use the holding you hand up to get attention, a lot of students have their backs to us. I've thought about putting a noise monitor on each table but I'm not sure it will work.
    Anyway my boss, the head has the ability to walk into the hall and silence descend, but we don't.
    Shouting has worked, but I don't like it. Last week we had 40% of the whole school walking about being silly and I'm afraid that's ground for a telling off, not individually but as a collective.
    I've been off this week and apparently it's been chaos. I'm the bad cop, my co worker is the good cop. I'm lovely when I'm not telling them off, but I'm fair and NEVER shout in their faces...ever. I'd never humiliate an indivdual or embarrass them in front of everyone.
    My head has listened to hearsay from a colleague that doesn't like me.
     

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