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No gender expression in zero tolerance

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MrMedia, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    One of the trainees came back from a zero tolerance school placement and when we were all discussing gender differences in school they said that they couldn’t contribute to the discussion because they observed no differences in the way boys and girls acted or worked in class. Every single other trainee talked about gender differences apart from this trainee.

    I mean, I know one is made a woman and not born a woman, but what do others think about this idea that zero tolerance removes their gender?
     
  2. Cervinia

    Cervinia Occasional commenter

    Good on this trainee for standing up for what they believe in. It sounds like the other trainees need educating about stereotyping, and masking assumptions about and pre-judging others.
     
  3. CeciledeVolanges

    CeciledeVolanges New commenter

    Is that what they really meant to say? It is surprising the could see no behavioural differences.
     
  4. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    Young, impressionable and ignorant with some vague notion that human differences don’t exist if one does not speak of them?

    In a way, by silence, the trainee did contribute to the discussion.
     
    Alice K, dunnocks and Oscillatingass like this.
  5. bombaysapphire

    bombaysapphire Star commenter

    Perhaps that trainee was just particularly unobservant.
     
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Different individuals learn and work in different ways... some of them are male... some of them are female... some of them tick other...

    And?
     
  7. koopatroopa

    koopatroopa Senior commenter

    @MrMedia Did you see this as a result of the zero tolerance policies?
     
  8. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    Zero tolerance of what, pray tell? Forgive me but I've been out of the system for 5 years so a lot must have changed.
     
    tiger8 and phlogiston like this.
  9. Orkrider2

    Orkrider2 Star commenter

    Or, someone who sees differences but recognises that it shouldn't be immediately decided that those differences necessarily must something to do with gender.
     
    BioEm and phlogiston like this.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Is this trainee ideological or just autistic?

    What behaviour did they not observe, this would be a telling question to ask them.
     
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    People may believe whatever they wish. Accurate observation is what matters.
     
    EmanuelShadrack likes this.
  12. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Sorry but I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that the school had zero tolerance for bad behaviour and all pupils behaved well and worked well,therefore no difference between boys and girls? Or I am misunderstanding?
     
  13. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    I taught in a number of different Secondary Schools in the SE over a 35 year period and I can reveal that boys and girls behave differently. Although human beings may share some similarities in terms of behaviour, they are not exactly the same and it would be a odd if they were.
     
    FrankWolley and lexus300 like this.
  14. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    I do it every year. Ask them what differences they saw in their placement school in genders. They talked about presentation, behaviour in group work, single gendered classes within co-ed schools (very popular in schools this year), willingness to offer wrong answers, ladette behaviour and so forth. The reason I ask is that boys don’t so well as girls to the point where there is a ten percent gap in outcomes at GCSE English. So what, I posit, is the problem and what is the answer?
    DfE said the problem was the assessment system favoured girls with coursework so they got rid of it and two years of results have revealed a ten percent gap again. So it’s not the assessment system.

    What is the problem and answer? Is it the teachers? Is it the pupils?

    Should you adapt your teaching to the gender or should you impose such a strict zero tolerance that their gender is not allowed to affect their learning? If the latter, what are the implications for this when they leave school and gender once again becomes part of the society within which they exist? What effect will this have on them forming their identity as part of growing into adults.

    We will always have a broad church of ideas or approaches, but this is the first time I’ve heard of zero tolerance de-gendering the pupils. It could be that, as others have said, the trainee is weak at observing. But what if they are not. What if we are de-gendering children at school. So what? Is this a bad thing. A good thing? I try not to presume I know all the answers and these TES forums have a broad spectrum of opinions so I thought I’d canvas some ideas before I start researching some more on it.
     
  15. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    So a few hours in class can overcome all the other time outside school living in a World which tolerates stereotyping and gender bias? Behaviours needed to cope outside don't come inside? Zero-tolerance policies are implemented flawlessly?
     
  16. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    I have been out of it for 9 years but I had 27 years teaching in FE. IME., males and females in the classroom behave and learn differently 'to an extent'.
    Without exception (again IME.) all male classes were not as easy to manage as a mixed group. In fact in some classes where it started as all male and then we added one or two late-comer female students behaviour modification of the group was instantaneous.
    I do not understand this obsession with gender in education. I do know that when I taught up to 2009, male and female students were quite different in their attitude to learning and in their classroom behaviour.
     
  17. install

    install Star commenter

    If there are no gender specific learning behaviours - than why do girls do better than boys in many subjects? :rolleyes:
     
    Alice K and Oscillatingass like this.
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Gender specific teaching behaviours?
     
    install likes this.
  19. install

    install Star commenter

    Yes. And gender specific exam testing maybe? :cool:
     
    racroesus likes this.
  20. Orkrider2

    Orkrider2 Star commenter

    While I agree that boys and girls tend to behave differently, I wouldn't say that the behaviour being exhibited by any particular child is because they are a boy or girl. What I have noticed is a slight difference in social attitude towards poor behaviour, with boys more likely to join in and laugh when someone is being silly than girls. But it's only slight difference, and depends on the particular student. The more marked difference to me, in my experience, is between the extroverted and more introverted students. The girls tend to be more introverted, but I'm not sure if that's because girls are inherently quieter (I doubt this personally) or whether they're more likely to be socially rewarded by being stereotypically feminine, ie. quiet, studious, helpful, caring, considerate etc., while boys are more socially rewarded by being stereotypically masculine, which fits in more with extroverted behaviour. The popular boys tend to be silly in class, sporty, like to indulge in rough and tumble play, and generally are the ones who have 'big personalities'. Quieter, bookish, awkward boys tend to be shunned from the main friendship groups and can quickly become the targets of mocking. The opposite is true of the girls. Those who cause disruption in class, like sports, rough play etc. tend to have fewer female friends and while they are tolerated by the boys, they're also not really accepted into the friendship group and will also be mocked and picked on by the louder boys. Quiet girls tend to be left alone, they group together and play their own games and in class tend to fly under the radar. But if anyone asks the class who is nice, reliable, or clever, their names will come up straight away.

    So is it that boys and girls behave differently, or that boys and girls, in general, are socially conditioned to behave differently in order to be accepted by their peers? Maybe a bit of both, but I personally feel it lies more with the latter explanation. However, these are gross generalisations and I wouldn't ever say that it's proof that there's a predisposition to any particular behaviour that is exclusive to boys or girls.
     

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