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no deal = no international flights or shipping?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by dunnocks, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    Can anyone explain the technical notices released today, with regards to shipping - I understand that with no deal, no international flights can take off from or land in the UK for the foreseeable future - I thought the plan was to mitigate this by massively increasing sea freight, but the technical notices released today seem to be explaining why there will be no shipping between the EU and the UK.

    ( unlike flights though, this is specific to the EU, not the rest of the world and the UK)

    what does this mean for cross channel ferries? Why is Kent planning to close its motorways for the huge excess of lorries entering and exiting through Dover to queue on, if we won't have shipping between the EU and the UK?
  2. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    £5 to go down south to fish. @josienig will have to go round and round the Letterkenny roundabout because she won't be able to drive in the North.
    josienig likes this.
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

  4. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    Where does it say there will be no shipping? From what I can surmise, if there is a no deal Brexit, the government will simply walk away and leave companies to:
    “engage with EU countries to ensure they are prepared for a ‘no deal scenario’ and understand what information they would be required to provide and how it would be submitted.”

    In other words, the Government ‘preparations’ are to inform industry that they will be doing diddly squat to help in the event of a no deal.
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Then you uuderstand wrongly. Even Michael O'Leary of Ryanair on Wednesday swallowed his ridiculous predictions of flights being permanently grounded and admitted that what he meant was a couple of days uncertainty (he's obviously looked at his booking figures for Easter and realised he's done a Gerald Ratner! :p)

    You've got that wrong too. You need to employ a better fortune teller.

    That they'll go round and round in circles before re-docking in Dover? !!!

    What you fail to realise is that firms want to make money. Governments need firms to make money in order to maintain tax incomes. You don't do that by preventing business.
    border_walker, lexus300 and nomad like this.
  6. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    how can we set up an aviation safety agreement within a couple of days? it required thousands of staff to be recruited and trained, premises set up for maintenance, acts of parliament to be passed to guarantee standards, courts able to uphold those standards, insurance companies able to underwrite those standards and at least 40 separate individual governments around the world to approve them.

    This hasn't even be started yet, it would take years to get into place, we have less than 200 days

    if all that was faced was a couple of days uncertainty, why has Heathrow used the spectre of the whole airport going bankrupt to raise a loan big enough to pay staff to stay home for three months? and declared they need more?

    Why has kent county council got emergency approval in place to close the motorways in Kent to stack lorries on to ensure continuity of medicine and food that would not be able to come through air freight? They have made the biggest order of chemical toilets ever!
    sparkleghirl likes this.
  7. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    no, the technical notices released yesterday refer to shipping between EU and UK being disrupted in tow ways.

    1. That no procedure exists to permit the docking of an EU vessel in the UK, or vice versa, as no procedure is required between EU member states, although it is required between EU and non member states

    2. British qualified sailors no longer having their qualifications recognised by the UK, so being unabe to sail French registered ships, which will leave many ferries etc unmanned, as they have employed so many Brits.

    So my question is not IS there an issue, as the government has been issuing notices to say that there is... but WHAT exactly is the issue

    Is it on a par with the international flights issue, which is acknowledged as virtually insurmountable, if we leave the jurisdiction of the European courts then international flights between UK and the rest of the world will be limited to countries whose governments agree to forgo all safety checks and insurance...

    Is the international shipping issue on that scale?

    Because my feeling is it can't be, as all contingency plans to rely on cross channel ferries. so presumably this is something easier to resolve which doesn't need thousands of staff recruited and trained, etc etc etc
  8. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    @florian gassmann , as we have recieved official notification that these issues are looming in the event of no deal, its a bit pointless of you to come on here and say I have misunderstood, and there are no issues.

    We all know these issues exist, we have been legally notified of them

    My question is can someone please explain the ferry one, because I don't understand it. is it as bad as the international flights one? is it surmountable? or is the whole operation stack thing, closing the motorways, supplying the country through ports thing based on ships coming from outside the EU?
    monicabilongame likes this.
  9. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    in the technical notices released yesterday, there was reference to having to provide security information and get exemptions in order for shipping to be allowed between EU and UK, my question is, how big a deal is that? Is it a bit more extra paperwork that can be produced and checked in a couple of extra days? or does it require setting up of whole new government departments, like the international flight thing.

    there was also something abut which crews could legally sail which boats, that didn't sound major, just a case of sacking the crew you have and appointing another one from a different country, its only some french ferries that have said they will be left unmanned, I think
  10. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    Of course there will be flights and shipping between us and mainland Europe and its scaremongering to think otherwise.

    But they will probably be more expensive and involve more regulations leading to more disruption. Although this might improve with time..
    border_walker likes this.
  11. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If there's no deal the French government position is as given above: no flights, no Eurostar.
  12. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    well, I obviously HOPE there will be flights if there is no deal.

    Please explain how you think this is going to be possible though
  13. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    I've been to France many times now and have noticed they always take a long lunch break, 11.30 to 14.00 hrs (longer if it sunny). So it will be possible to sneak a few boats and planes in whilst they are at lunch. They will never notice and the problem is solved. :D

    On a serious note, non EU countries have agreements to fly and sail into France the UK will have to follow the same procedures as they do. No doubt with more cost and disruption but that is what some people voted for so that is what we have to put up with.

    Since France will still trade with us after Brexit they will not want to stop flights and shipments, but I do think we have more to lose then they do.
  14. peapicker

    peapicker Star commenter

    What do you imagine used to happen before we joined the EEC?
    lanokia and nomad like this.
  15. Sir_Henry

    Sir_Henry Occasional commenter

    What do you imagine used to happen before we joined the EEC?

    Indeed. Britain before the EEC was a country to be reckoned with, a proud place with identity and spirit.
    border_walker, nomad and lexus300 like this.
  16. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    Obviously France wants to trade with us but they are in no position to authorise international flights. No one is. That's the whole problem. Not lack of will, but we don't have the infra structure to get an international flight off the ground insured and legal. And won't for the foreseeable future, if we leave the jurisdiction of the EU courts

    so we don't leave the jurisdiction of the European courts, or no flights.

    Unless you are aware of another plan that I haven't heard of?
  17. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    thats irrelevant though, because none of the treaties and agreements in place then are still valid
  18. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    More headless chickens coming home to roost! When will the panic mongering stop?
    border_walker and nomad like this.
  19. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    how am I panic mongering?

    I am asking for an explanation.

    firstly and foremost to the question does anyone know how cross channel ferries, and other shipping are going to be affected by the information in the technical notices yesterday?

    Do you have an answer for that @lexus300 ? an actual answer, not a denial that this was raised in the technical notices.

    The other question that has come up since I started the thread is about international flights.

    do you have an explanation of how international flights will be able to continue after a no deal Brexit?

    An actual answer, and explanation, not a denial that as things have stood over the last few months, international flights to and from UK won't be happening.

    If you have an actual hope, please tell it, but please don't just brush over it, that just makes it seem like you don't understand whats happening. But if you do understand whats happening, and still think there is a way forward, please explain why you think that
  20. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    A better snapshot of brexit and what it means would be hard to find.
    chelsea2, sabrinakat and MAGAorMIGA like this.

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