1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Need a bit of advice please

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by dragonslayer33000, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. dragonslayer33000

    dragonslayer33000 New commenter

    I started working on a temporary basis in january this year as a nqt through an agency for two terms. The school liked me and happy with the work done. They advertised the role as a permanent which i applied for and got the job on a permanent basis starting september. However upon further enquiry i was told that i would get no holiday pay over the summer as a i am with an agency and my role with the school will commence on september.

    Now i get that supply teaching even on a long term contract for two terms do not get holiday pay (easter is hard) but surely the school should offer to pay over the summer?

    what are your thoughts?
  2. IanG

    IanG Occasional commenter

    Should the school offer to pay over the summer? No.

    Standard practice, has been for as long as I can remember. Big difference between temporary agency and permanent contract even at the same school. You could have a quiet chat with school to ask, but as you recognise the permanent contract doesn’t start till September and the answer will almost certainly no. Does the agency know you have secured a permanent position at a school they introduced you to?
  3. secretteacher2357

    secretteacher2357 Occasional commenter

    Unfortunately they are correct. The post starts in September and you have no agreement to be paid through the summer.
    You could appeal to their better nature and ask if they would pay you but that's pretty much all you can do.
    jlishman2158, Pomza, IanG and 3 others like this.
  4. SCAW12

    SCAW12 Occasional commenter

    Think school has to buy you out of your agency contract too?

    Start saving now for the summer and get a part time summer job, maybe, so you can at least enjoy the summer a little bit? Think to yourself that next summer you will be paid. Well done for getting the post. Be positive about it as much as possible!
  5. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    The above advice is 100% correct. Your job starts in September...
  6. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    See if other schools nearby run holiday clubs or similar over the summer. They may want staff and will bite your hand off as a qualified teacher.
    Or do checkout work in a supermarket. It pays well enough and is totally stress free, well more or less, and leaves you time to prepare for September should you wish.

    It's naff, but isn't wrong.

    From your previous threads, where you were worried about starting at the school and then worried about teaching KS5, it is really fab to see that things are working out for you and you can see yourself there for a while yet. Really pleased for you.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  7. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    As above the answer is a very clear "no". Surprising also , in a way, that you might have expected it, since you clearly were not paid over Easter-and that represents only a third of the amount (approx) that the school would have to foot compared to Summer.

    Your question is clearly motivated by financial concern, which is only human.
    If that is to do with covering, say, rent or mortgage for your home, would you be able to explain the situation to your landlords or bank?
    Some of your larger bills may be deferrable over the summer, perhaps then spread out over subsequent months, who knows-up until now you have had a pretty tenuous state of employment, but from September you suddenly become far more credit worthy than (presumably) any other time in your life. Permanent teacher. In my experience most creditors seem to find this quite a comforting phrase.
    Just a suggestion in addition to the other sensible ones above.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  8. afterdark

    afterdark Lead commenter

    Only if you negotiated it when you were interviewed for the September. I recall starting a job in the early 90's and another teacher on exactly the same point as me had negotiated being paid from late July. He came in for the end of the Summer term. Finding this out may be too late for you now as it was for me then, but you live and learn.

    This is the part of the whole thing were folks who believe schools should be run as businesses suddenly fall silent when it comes to negotiating for yourself as you could/would in many businesses.

    Rather like the going home early debate and taking a power nap. These things are fine for business. The collective Schizophrenia regarding teachers rights is staggering. In many people's eye the negotiating only seems to apply to those at the top.

    So from now on, remember fight for what you can get.

    Remember do absolutely nothing extra for the school over summer. They are going to be paying you nothing, remind yourself of this at every suitable junction. By all means do your own prep and lesson plans. Be sure to take all the stationery from the school for this sole purpose. Its a business after all. If schools want to play this way, remember cooperation is a two way street.

    You may want to look for work teaching summer schools elsewhere. The regular teacher has perhaps fallen ill, type thing. You could even work part time in bar by the sea side or in a night club.

    Go to a temp agency for casual work. Offices are often glad of a graduate, they tend to be able to read write and be quite competent.

    Once, I had a summer temping in an office between leaving supply and moving to teach abroad. The office folks tried to offer me a job. I smiled and told them I was off to work for an oil company. I didn't feel the need to explain that it was a school. They clearly did not believe me at first. I am still friends with a couple of the office workers, they are good people.

    Don't let the cheapness of your current/future employer dictate things. Meet new people. It can be very nice going to work knowing that you soon be leaving.

    It is cheapness not paying you over the holiday...they used to value graduates. Never forget, this is how much you are valued by soon to be permanent employer.
    agathamorse and jlishman2158 like this.
  9. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    The agency will state somewhere that an element of your current remuneration should be treated as holiday pay.

    In short. You have had/are having your holiday pay every time that deposit hits your bank account.

    Is it enough? No. Are supply rates competitive? No. Is it a "good" wage? No. But you were expected to save some of it for the periods when schools are closed.
    jlishman2158 and IanG like this.
  10. Happygopolitely

    Happygopolitely Established commenter

    Why should your school pay you for free when your perm contract starts in September?
    jlishman2158 likes this.
  11. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    If you are unemployed for 6 weeks or so during the summer, maybe investigate whether you qualify for any social security benefits...?
  12. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Not recommended.
    The act of investigating will require a lot longer than the actual six weeks, and will additionally land you with mysterious cars outside your house at seven in the morning peopled by large people "reading" newspapers with eye holes cut in them.

    (On the plus side however, if you do eventually find you qualify for some benefits you should receive them by around October 2037. Yay.)
    agathamorse likes this.
  13. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Keep the b*ggers busy then! ;)
  14. dragonslayer33000

    dragonslayer33000 New commenter

    Thank you all for your replies. I am not a greedy person. The only issue is that i got a young family to look after. If i was single i would not care that much and just get on with it. One of the teachers at the school was unhappy when i told him about my situation saying i should i have negotiated. But i am just a nqt newbie. lol.

    The agency does not know. I was told by the panel that i should not contact the agency or tell them i got a permanent contract with the school when my final terms end.
  15. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Well, the school would probably owe a "finder's fee" to the agency if you go directly from the agency to the school's employ. An introduction fee. That's a common deal that's in place.

    But the fact remains that your agency pay included an element of holiday pay. So the agency owes you nothing and neither does the school. It's just the way it is.
  16. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    "If I was single I'd just get on with it"

    Yeah, because single people don't have rent/mortgages/bills to pay, do they?

    This is standard practice. You will be in between employers over the summer - therefore there is no one to pay you.

    Its not just agency staff. Trainees who are employed by their practice schools are told that they will start in September and be paid from then - not from 1st July and over August.
  17. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    Also remember that even if you do not get any benefits immediately, do you get your NI paid?
    Early days in your career but you will need 35 years in the system to get a full state pension. You'll appreciate the money when your 67 or 68 or 70 or what ever age they move retirement up to when you eventually get there.
    agathamorse and jlishman2158 like this.
  18. IanG

    IanG Occasional commenter

    The school really should not of said this :(. The agency introduced you to the school and as such they will want a 'finders fee'; the transition from agency temp to permanent teacher can incur huge costs. Schools can be asked to pay up to 20 per cent of the new teacher’s salary, which could result in a “finder’s fee” of up to £10,000 (TES article back in 2018). Naturally the school know this and perhaps understandbly want you to keep shtum. Who can blame schools in this climate?

    Just becareful as there will be a section in your supply agency contract regarding this... You could simply inform the agency that you no longer require work from September and leave it that. But I'm really concerned that the you were told explicitly not to tell agency...
  19. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Yes, the school is essentially inviting you to assist in defrauding the agency of the fee that the school knows full well is due to the agency for having "introduced" you.
  20. rsg2016

    rsg2016 New commenter

    No sorry, the school don't have to pay you over the summer. Would another school you applied for be obligated to? It's just the same unfortunately. You should have accrued some holiday pay though if you are with an agency and there is always universal credit. I claimed it every holiday that I was a supply teacher.
    jlishman2158 and grumpydogwoman like this.

Share This Page