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National behaviour policy why doesn't the government introduce one?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by cillia, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. cillia

    cillia New commenter

    I find it so unfair to kids that actually want to learn - I recently have been doing cover in some pretty badly behaved schools but recently I had the misfortune to do cover at the most appallingly behaved school ever. The kids would tell you to "**** off" they would completely ignore you when addressing them, they would fight in front of you, or push desks chairs and tables over for a laugh - Some would walk out of the class whenever they felt like it. Kids on their phone showing each other You Yube clips or taking or making calls and texts when ask them to stop theyd ignore or say "In a minute.." You would have kids from other classes wander in for a chat with their mates or maybe slap them or abuse them and ignore you asking them to leave. Bullying was a constant factor which under safeguarding I reported multiple cases. Kids threatening to beat up or even stab other kids. Kids coming into a class tackling round the class with a football when I gave chase became ridiculous soI left it. On one occasion a head teacher who helped me before I went across to ask for assistance as my class was chaos he opened the door and was soaked across his face and shirt where a kid he was asking to put away his fizzy drink had thrown it all over him! He said: "I seem to be having some problems of my own". One kid Opened a school learning resource with cards took all the cards out and then threw them all up in the air (52 card pick up style) when I said please clear it up totally ignored. There was no disciplinary procedure and there was no place you could eject kids out to. Most of the time no work was set for cover but when there was they mostly ignored it screwed it up threw it on the floor. I mean iv'e worked in prisons and PRU's but this was truly remarkable. going from lesson to lesson there was often bundle fights in the corridors taking 2 - 3 teachers shouting STOP! to break it and then the kids would run. I mean, not all were like really bad but in classes of 20 plus there were so many factions that unless the key offenders were ejected one would be constantly firefighting. Sometimes I just sat there and let it go as it was too stressful, amazed at what i was really seeing.

    There are many many good and effective measures for dealing with all this kind of behaviour and i have seen variations of it in quite a few schools. Some schools have a comprehensive behavioural team and good policies and then you work in a school not a mile down the road part of the same Academy Trust and you find chaos! Even shared good practice would be a start but it seems quite often that 'Autonomy' is every school's best asset.
    pepper5 likes this.
  2. cillia

    cillia New commenter

    I was really against cameras or CCTV or body cams but now I'm beginning to change my mind.
    Fluffy_Koala, pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  3. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    I'm genuinely shocked at this, and I've taught in schools that were in/coming out of Special Measures.

    Poor behaviour, I've observed, leads to a downward spiral in schools - staff feel harrassed, they lose confidence in their teaching, they get a mouthful from SLT - and in these schools, they tend to be the SLT who sit in their offices and ignore the fact that Rome is burning - they leave. Behaviour gets worse, people leave even more quickly, and the school ends up either staffed or with a rota of supply who have every right not to put up with **** like this.

    If the HT is on the receiving end of this behaviour, I don't hold out hope for the school surviving.

    You did tell your agency about this? It reads as though your life - and I'm not exaggerating - was potentially put in danger in such a cesspit.
    Jamvic, pepper5, JohnJCazorla and 2 others like this.
  4. saluki

    saluki Lead commenter

    Pretty normal behavior in FE. It's all the teachers' fault.:rolleyes: I have also seen it in failing schools.
    Always google the ofsted report of any school that you are going in to as a supply teacher.
    By the way is your username pronounced Cilla as in Cilla Black or sillier?
    pepper5 likes this.
  5. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Surely in FE the kids will be on the whole better behaved because they have made a conscious decision to study a course and should be more mature at age 16-18?
    pepper5 likes this.
  6. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    Not necessarily. A friend of mine teaches in FE - about 60% are students who have to do re-sits/ got flushed out of PRUs/failed apprenticeships. They don't want to be there, but the college wants the money. She came into her classroom once to find her photo stuck on the board with "I am a ****" written underneath it. By an 18 year old. Charming.
  7. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Well, at least in FE they can be shown the door pretty rapidly, or at least sent home for the day.
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  8. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    No, they can't be show the door - if you mean to go permanently. The FE sector is desperately short of funds. Even the worst is worth holding onto. The same as in many failing schools, where students who are a nightmare are kept on purely to keep the money flowing in.
  9. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    Ok, I thought that it would be better in FE

    This is what happens when money is made king in education - it results in terminal failure and academies are another step towards commercialism, and as far as I am concerned, they are failing probably millions of kids through constant staff turnaround and squandering of funding, etc, etc.

    Surely, though, you can send them home for the rest of the day, at least, as they need no parental notification.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    pepper5 and agathamorse like this.
  10. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    Well, it isn't. FE is used as a dumping ground for kids who failed at mainstream but then need qualifications by quite a few authorities. Some do go into FE with genuine enthusiasm, but not all.
    saluki, pepper5 and grumpydogwoman like this.
  11. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    yes, I reckon the worst jobs in FE must be English and maths re-sit classes. I have no doubt that they are probably worse than mainstream high school classes.
  12. Flanks

    Flanks Senior commenter

    Careful being too general. Some counties are tertiary systems, where all post 16 education is in colleges.

    Some of those colleges are the best or among the best A-level providers in the country. They also tend to be far better at delivering the quality alevels which aren't part of the GCSE curriculum, such as psychology or law.
  13. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Star commenter

    Because the government doesnt know how to solve it either.
    pepper5 and drek like this.
  14. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    A standard national behaviour policy wouldn't result in standard national application of it.
  15. drek

    drek Star commenter

    I remember this new teacher who was a family friend of the headteacher...
    The school behaviour patterns was much the same as the OP described.
    Anyway this new staff had the Headteacher constantly going into his lessons when he had the ‘tough’ groups, supporting him by keeping the unruly behind and then hollering at them or he would get the admin staff to ring parents and arrange meetings which he sat in on supporting the teacher.
    The students got the message early on before the behaviour became impossible to turn.
    The teacher was pronounced outstanding by the headteacher.....
    No other teacher in the school had so much admin help nor immediate high level support of any kind.
    More often it was negative, evasive support.......line managers bleating about differentiating and using ‘support booklets’ or worse....don’t keep the whole class behind, or....try and make friends (with students using foul language and throwing stuff), or other useless snippets.
    And then they hid behind their own carefully self selected student groups or in their offices.
    Mayhem elsewhere, staff leaving of their own accord due to a daily dose of student/parent, SLT aggressiveness or threatened with capability, support staff leaving, Inexperienced staff or non subject specialists hired......adding to the volatility of the situation in all departments.
    Currently the dfe seem to be saying no exclusions, no PRU units, no off rolling, nowhere to send students whose behaviour puts other students and staff at risk.
    What is the message to teachers stuck with all the behaviour issues hour after hour?
    Sort it out yourself........? Be more understanding? Follow school behaviour policies? But not with all students all of the time..... Everyone clear now?
    Some teachers will have a choice of students. Others won’t and can get a really bad mix for longer stressful periods of time as well.
    Some staff will have quicker access to help than others.
    the teaching experience can be very different for staff even in the same department let alone school.
  16. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    They should close the school immediatly as it is dangerous for all concerned. There is no point in it being opened since no learning is going to take place in the chaos described. It is shocking.
    saluki and agathamorse like this.
  17. friedgreentomatoes

    friedgreentomatoes Star commenter

    In my experience, even a school behaviour policy doesn't result in a consistent school application of it.
  18. Summerhols6

    Summerhols6 Occasional commenter

    After the BREXIT fiasco, giving a vote on leaving the EU to secure a place in government then hoping everyone votes to remain (Camerons position that cost him his job) then resigning and May (a remainer) has to agree a BREXIT deal! You couldn't make a parody of this and you think these cretins can make a national behaviour policy?!
    -myrtille- likes this.
  19. pickles124

    pickles124 Established commenter

    For a national behaviour policy to be formulated and issued in every school, it has to be followed to the letter by every school and every department. Which would include mainstream schools, SEN, independent and private.

    Seeing as schools operate in different ways and have their own ethos etc I don't see how having one main behaviour policy would work.
    pepper5 likes this.
  20. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    I worked in two schools within half a mile of each other in the centre of my City.
    In the first, the HT stated, " my teachers are here to teach, not baby sit badly behaved teenagers" and quickly removed those who disrupted other pupils' work. Rang parents on the spot and insisted they collected them immediately. Returning at a future date to discuss the behaviour required for them to return to school. Behaviour was good, results approached 80% 5 A-C. He permanently excluded less than one pupil per year in the six years that I was there. The local authority constantly tried to undermine him, he simply told them where to go, essentially saying, "if you want to run a school, become a HT.

    At the other school the HT did what the LEA told him to get a quiet life. Teacher were left to teach, managers hid in offices. Police were called more than once to deal with "riots." Results were down around 20% 5 A-C

    Incidentally, the former school was taken over by an ex LEA advisor, within 2 years results were down below 40% and the school was bankrupted by her appointment of 13 assistant HTs as well as 3 deps rather than the existing 2.

    And now we are hearing more pressure to reduce exclusions of any kind
    agathamorse, pepper5 and a1976 like this.

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