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NASUWT says 68,000 BME teachers needed.

Discussion in 'Education news' started by Mr_Ed, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Mr_Ed

    Mr_Ed Established commenter

    What?

    http://newspig.co.uk/schools-need-68000-extra-bme-teachers-to-reflect-population/

    "An extra 68,000 teachers from black and minority ethnic (BME) backgrounds need to be recruited to reflect England’s school population, figures show."

    Why does this need to be said or indeed done, I don't read that x % of judges, or postmen or taxi drivers or footballers should be from a certain community, to reflect our population, why teachers? Surely, teachers should be recruited on merit alone, not their ethnicity & indeed to do so would be illegal, yes?
     
    Landofla likes this.
  2. Smithy84

    Smithy84 New commenter

    Here goes that white privilege again.

    You haven't walked a mile in any BME professional's shoes yet you're so quick to brush aside their concerns. That makes you a part of problem whether you're aware of it or not.

    As much as TES contributors love to talk about education they are uncomfortable when it comes to discussing race and ethnicity either through fear or because they do not agree with BME teachers concerns. Don't forget there was a time in history were black people did not have many rights yet people like yourself still brushed their rights and views aside.

    BME teachers who have posted here in the past have also been bullied by white teachers posting on this forum. The entire teaching system is institutionally racist simple as that.

    You will never get a constructive discourse about racism on this forum as there is no diversity. What people will instead do is attack my post and detract from the original purpose of this thread.

    Please see the below articles citing the lack of BME teachers in other professions. Next time do your research.

    www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice/bme-solicitors-more-harshly-treated--but-sra-cleared-of-racism-/5040336.article

    www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36348750

    sport/football/34589035

    www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/british-schools-suffering-considerable-stubbornly-10744247


    www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/40594328/racism-in-english-schools-is-out-there-says-one-teacher

    www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/bme-teachers-still-suffer-micro-aggression-and-perpetrated

    What you've just done is make assumptions without doing the reseaech. You've subconsciously did this. Now imagine this type of thinking in school leadership? You will be disadvanting BME teachers day to day without even realising it. Sad fact I'm afraid.

    At the end of the day, the fight against racism and inequality goes on. Your either on the right side of history or on the wrong one. Whatever happens, people like me won't stop fighting for equality.
     
    slingshotsally and vinnie24 like this.
  3. MonMothma

    MonMothma Lead commenter

    Do you know about barriers?
    Barriers of opportunity?
    People who recruit people 'like them'.
    People who are put off applying because they don't see themselves fitting into an environment
    People who are not encouraged to apply for certain positions.

    Are you a teacher? You do understand barriers in education and careers?
     
  4. SomethingWicked

    SomethingWicked Occasional commenter

    I certainly think that having more BME teachers is a positive thing, however I'd want to be sure this new influx is spread evenly around the country. One of the (many) problems with the American education system is that you have schools with an almost exclusively black/white workforce teaching an almost exclusively black/white student population. It seems plainly obvious that this deepens racial divides as children only grow up seeing people of their own ethnic background as role models. Consistent diversity within schools is more important than the headline national 68,000 figure quoted.
     
  5. Bobbbs

    Bobbbs Occasional commenter


    Britain has ~7.88% BME citizens. BME Teachers make up ~7.6% of the work force.

    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2016-09-05/shortage-of-black-teachers-data-reveals

    Please see the 2011 census data for the 7.88% figure.

    So...where's the issue? It's a discrepancy of .22%.

    BME make up over 18% of NHS staff, should this be lowered to match statistics?

    So, where is the inequality in those numbers?
     
  6. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    Exactly what I thought when hearing this discussed on radio the other morning. We want to avoid ghettos, of whatever type, at all costs.
     
  7. vinnie24

    vinnie24 Lead commenter

    Great post

    Yes you will get attacked for saying what you have said. You have probably already received mail from the mods.

    The frightening thing is that your attackers (and there will be quite a few) will all be teachers of BME kids.
    That is more concerning to me than my future career prospects.
     
    slingshotsally likes this.
  8. Bobbbs

    Bobbbs Occasional commenter

    What was great about it?

    It was emotionally driven, and ignores the current figures.

    I'd be more concerned about a member of a staff that ignores the figures and facts in favour of sentiment and belief.

    Also, can people tone down their language? "Attackers"?? You mean people who disagree with their impassioned, and irrational, views?
     
  9. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    You call it an 'attack' whereas what it really is is a discussion. However discussion, in your eyes, is not allowed on this subject.
     
  10. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    OP, I'd like to see your comments on this post...
     
  11. vinnie24

    vinnie24 Lead commenter

    This is data from the 2011 census. Can't see where this 7.88% figure comes from. Looks to be double that looking at the Ethnicity table. Sorry Frank.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom

    Besides anyone who has been in a school staff room (and I have been in plenty) will have noticed a distinct lack of black/brown faces and will of heard many times, racist comments made from some of those theirin.

    Anyone who disputes this cannot be black.
     
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    You need to go in more then... because this [In my experience] isn't an accurate reflection of the reality in my area.

    And I've never ... never ... heard a racist comment from a teacher.
     
    Pomz likes this.
  13. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    erm, perhaps the real issue is the lack of teachers from lower working class (or underclass) backgrounds.
    The section that under perform most is apparently the white lower class boys, most of the ethnic groups over perform in comparison.

    Sp what proportion of the profession are white lower class boys?
    just wondering
     
    Pomz likes this.
  14. vinnie24

    vinnie24 Lead commenter

    Are you black? If you are then I stand corrected. But I suspect you are one of those people who know more about my experiences than I do.
     
  15. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    I've never heard a racist comment from a teacher (I worked in state and, for a short time, independent schools for 32 years).


    Looking at the figures it looks as if the 7.78% figure is from the 2001 census, and by 2011 the % of BME in the UK had gone up to 12.83%. But this document (2015) suggests the % of BME teachers is 13%:


    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/533618/SFR21_2016_MainText.pdf


    So, I ask again, where's the problem?
     
    sabrinakat, Pomz and Mr_Ed like this.
  16. Smithy84

    Smithy84 New commenter

    He has that white privilege thing going on.

    Black teachers are excluded in the staff room. They are usually on their own and many staff in my school seem to have an inherent dislike for them. For example, our head of year mentioned to me and others how she didn't like the new young black maths teacher. When I asked her why she said "I dunno, something arrogant about her". I put in an anonymous complaint as it was the right thing to do. It was subtle racism disguised as something else.

    When you see the cliques at work, how many BME teachers are included in That? None from what I've seen. I've also witnessed a reluctance to promote the success of BME teachers. A BME teacher coached students for a national competition and they came 2nd place. Hardly mentioned apart from a single bullet point in some obscure part of the schools website. A month later, white female drama teacher took her students go a dance competition and won absolutely nothing yet the slt praised her efforts and mentioned it in a whole school staff briefing. It's these subtle things that people aren't noticing due to their own ignorance.
     
    vinnie24 likes this.
  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I know nothing about your experience and if you reread my post I didn't presume to.

    I gave you my experience. That it doesn't accord with yours is because we aren't the same people. Both are valid.
     
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    So easy to dismiss others experience on the grounds of their race...
     
  19. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Just to tackle the issue from a slightly different point of view...

    ...whilst I'd absolutely ALWAYS advocate proportionality in the teaching population, and loathe racism in all its forms...

    ...our first point of call might be to get an extra 68,000 more teachers OF ANY COLOUR! I'd be happy to have 68,000 more teachers of any and every colour.

    To get 68,000 extra BME teachers, and for that increase to be proportional over all ethnicities, we're looking at maybe approaching HALF A MILLION extra teachers overall.

    Given the lessening salaries, lower pensions, longer working age, increased pension contributions, MASSIVELY higher workload, and increased job insecurity, I'm not sure there are 68,000 members of the public stupid enough to decide to become teachers, let alone getting that many rom the BME community.

    I'm not sure this proposal isn't as institutionally racist as the idea that we need to get bus conductors from the Indian sub continent as no white will work for the poor money/conditions.

    Surely we shouldn't be in a position, in the 21st century, where the worst jobs are reserved for ethnic minorities.
     
  20. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    some of you seem to have a lot of figures at hand. What are the figures for total population Male/female and that within the teaching profession ??
    Where do we start, where do we stop?
    Or shall we follow the BBC into politically led programming/teaching/presenters that no one much wants to watch or listen to ?
     

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