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Na Na - told you so. Bye bye Diploma. It was obvious you were ****.

Discussion in 'Computing and ICT' started by McDiploma, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. If you took the time to read the article you might see that it is about the Science, Humanities and Language Diplomas, and that the CBI are reiterating their support for the others, including the IT Diploma
     
  2. Don't be silly. The 3 mentioned certainly have been given a death stab. The ICT will follow, as it's as much vocational as a paper round. It's just a matter of time. I don't know about you, but we have so few employers willing to be part of this madcap scheme, and the logistical exercise (not to mention the cost) of moving youngsters about between sites is proving a nightmare. We have calculated the cost of buses, bus supervisors, extra admin time to monitor and cross-reference attendance for a joint venture between our 6 schools / colleges / employers to be the best part of £40K pa.
     
  3. Yep just the academic ones, they haven't abandoned the need for a 'vocational' curriuclum, this does have the support of employers. (although actually implementing them is a different proposition).

    Maybe it means this:

    "The clever academic kids we'll measure the way we always have, by GCSE and A Level results, most going on to degree level.

    The less academic ones, those who used to do GNVQ and all the other quals can do the Vocational Diplomas as that will be simpler for us to understand than GNVQ this, BTEC that....."

    This is a problem as effectively employers are not wanting the Diploma tag to be put on all students as it is already seen by them as a second class qualification.
     
  4. I don't think they are just quite out yet either. There is just to much mind changing going - It wont suprise me if in a few weeks the IoD jump in and say the Diplomas are just what we need.

    When Tony Blair was in power he bottled doing the full diploma despite Mike Tomlinson's recommendations, which had widespread support from education establishment - teachers and researchers. Everyone at the time was on about how GCSEs and A Levels were getting easier and A Levels needed scrapping as they were no longer fit.

    So Gordon Brown comes into power and does what Tony didn't have the bottle to do and now everyone and now everyone decides Diplomas are bad.

     
  5. Muppets are encouraged to do Diplomas.
    Proper students are encouraged to do A Levels.

    That's the problem with Diplomas. They are perceived as second rate because they are second rate. Noble intentions have resulted in a mess. And it will only get worse as jokes are being told about the Diplomas now, and Balls is spending all of his time denying this and denying that.

    I can only think that the people who wrote the Diploma were the same ones who wrote the new KS3 specification.
     
  6. If we did a straw poll, would most teachers be for or against Diplomas?
    How representative are the negative views expressed on this forum?
     
  7. With the odd exception, the people who post here are well informed and have seen it all before. Schools seem to be looking for easy grades and with a variable level of expertise you could probably dig up some support.
     
  8. Its hard to be positive about something that isn't actually working yet and hard to be positive about a qualification which does not seem to be distinquishable from the GNVQ/DiDA/OCR Nats route that schools have undertaken and probably want to just settle into the predominant qualification, OCR Nats, for a while.

    I believe that the Diplomas will come about, will be taken by an increasing number of students and by 2013 will have a decent base of students. But they won't be taken en-masse, don't, as yet, seem to offer anything new, and are more likley to be a long term widening of choice than a revolutionary change in KS4. As ever, if you take the polarised views out, positive and negative you always get nearer to reality.
     
  9. robot1

    robot1 New commenter

    If your (reasonably bright) child came home one day and said my teacher thinks I should do a Diploma instead of A?Levels, what would tell your kid?

    I would tell her, ?your teacher is completely mad!?, and to do A?levels.

    How many of the Diploma fans can honestly say they would do otherwise and let their own flesh and blood do a Diploma?

    Robot1
     
  10. It is interesting that there are still some doubts about the introduction of Diplomas. The momentum for them and the investment in them is unstoppable.
     
  11. FT

    Only 2 things are unstoppable. They are Death and Taxes.
     
  12. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

    "It is interesting that there are still some doubts about the introduction of Diplomas. The momentum for them and the investment in them is unstoppable." Geez do you not recall the KS3 online test, it was the future you know, it had the backing of education's biggest computing supplier. We were told that everyone loved it in the hype and then when it turned out it was carp it became optional and people slowly let it die. Oh my and what happened to the KS3 national strategy, I wonder how many people who ahev any idea about our subject still use it (that's a rhetorical question).

    Your dimploma will become optional and open to market forces then and only then will you, I or anyone else find out just how unstoppable it will be.

     
  13. It is true to say that Diplomas will be subject to market forces. However, comparisons with the other initiatives mentioned are not particularly good indicators of the course of Diplomas, because they are relatively minor activities in comparison. Prior to the introduction of the National Curriculum there was a very similar debate occuring. This would make a better comparison as it is of a similar scale in terms of change management.

    Those groups of people working to introduce new learning pathways and ensure they are a success are aware of the need to support schools with implementation issues. We can expect a series of incentives tp emerge as we go forward, of which we have seen one or two already.

    The comments on these pages are illustrative of one of the obstacles to their introduction.
    It would be pertinent to this debate to point out that planners are aware that over the next 4 years there will be something like a 30% turnover in the teaching profession.

    The timing and degree of turnover makes for a manageable change programme. New entrants to the profession will be equipped to teach the tiers of education available to young people at that time, including the Diploma route.

     
  14. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

    So are you saying that just because new teachers come in then they will only like the courses they grew up with delivering in the first place? Cos I came into teaching roughly when they introduced the GNVQ and I could see it for what it was worth then and look what happened...

     
  15. I have one questions for posters like deep throat. Are you a teacher?
     
  16. question duh
     
  17. I think what FT and his/her various socks are saying is "if I don't sell this rubbish I might be in trouble"

    Note the continual absence of any reason to teach them (other than threats/demands/bullying) ; he/she/it/they has given up on the claims that the qual. will be tops for work, apparently.
     
  18. I think the comparison with the National Curriculum is a good one. The diploma programme is very big in its implications.

    I think there is another message here from whichever mandarin is playing the Deep Throat role, and that is that the Government has got plans to ensure that the teaching profession won't block the Diplomas. They are planning to let the old grumblers go and replace them with new recruits who will be more at ease with the proposed changes.

    Sounds like a reasonable strategy, except if you are a young grumbler, in which case you will live in interesting times.
     

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