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My daughter is being taught by a TA !

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by supplybychoice, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. beameup

    beameup New commenter

    And has any teacher posted on School Managers or Governors yet? They are the ones implementing all this.
  2. ukred

    ukred New commenter

    beameup, if HTLA or NVQ3 or whatever was teacher training...why have PGCEs or GTPs?

    The training you mention is for Teaching ASSISTANTS
  3. Whether you like it or not, covering whole classes under the supervision of the teacher is now part of the TAs job description. It does not need the TA to qualify as a teacher in order to do this. TAs might actually enjoy being a TA and NOT want to be a teacher.
  4. cornflake

    cornflake Senior commenter

    beammeup: a PGCE or a GTP student has to meet the QTS standards, a HTLA course attendee does not. I'm sure someone on this thread posted more details about this a few pages back...
  5. i am starting to wonder why the hell i spent 4 years at uni doing a degree, and then another doing a pgce.

    teaching assistants do a fantastic job, and i love having TAs in my class. as far as i'm concerned they're underpaid and undervalued.

    However the HLTA does make a mockery of those who attain QTS.
  6. Oh, what major problems this QTs has brought over the years. So many red herrings. Only those qualified to teach should teach. But who is qualified to teach?

    Surely the issue here is more about cvompetence?
    is this person, no matter what their status ( and consequently pay) doing a decent job?


    Many mooons ago I posted a three case scenario based on three teachers I knew in my school at the time and asked who you would prefer to teach your child?

    All three were maths teachers.
    The first was a good maths graduate ( Durham) who had been teaching for twenty plus years. He had three good A levels in maths , Physics and Chemistry and a clutch of O levels which included English Language, lit and maths of course.
    He had never done any kind of teacher training. He had QTSunder the rules as implimented in 1989.

    The second had a maths degree and a Ph.D. Had trained and qualified as a teacher in FE and had taught in schools for nearly twenty years. Again he had a clutch of ghood O levels including maths and English ( land and lit).
    He did not have QTS because FE teaching certificates were not given QTS status under the rules.

    The third was a trained teacher who undertook training as a teacher in teacher training college in the 1970's. She had five O levels which included
    Enlish Language ( not maths).She has one A level in home economics and took this as her main subject
    at teacher training college. her second subject was ( then) PE. She obtained QTS under the 1989 rules.

    Who would you prefer to teach your child? On what basis?

    For five years I worked as an unqualified teacher and a HoD. I have a Ph.D and a PGCE. I was FE trained and until 2001 I was not able to get QTS ( many with similar qualifications but who are just slightly younger than me or who have a different degree or just didnt enter teaching before 1989 still do not have QTS).I was teaching A level . I still teach A level . Why is it that I am qualified to teach in an FE or a sixth form college ( or most other places) but not in a sixth form in a school?

    Does not having or having QTS make me better or worse at doing my job?

    I had a co teacher a few months ago. He was a qualified teacher (QTS). He was so incompetent many of the students asked the same questions as the original poster here ( only to be told he was qualified). They asked me the same question.... I said he is a qualified teacher . Then one kid twigged and said " Miss , is he qualified to teach this subject?" He was not! B ut he had QTS!!!

    But by the same token I could easily be unqualifed and much m ore able to teach the subject than he was.,

    There is much more that needs to be asked and considered than a simple thing like QTS.

  7. By the wahy, there are manyh tgeachers who now enjoy QTS who were trained and qualified with a cert ed in the 1970's who were employed as " Assistant teachers".

    These treachers were supposed to assist the graduates who were the real teachers. They were not paid to be teachers. There was a grand hoo haa when they started taking clases on their own too.
    What goes around, comes around as they say.

    So a cert ed and teacher training from 1973 and you have QTS awarded automatically in 1989. HTLA in 2006..... whats the difference?
  8. ukred

    ukred New commenter

    ***********, this isn't quite the same thing. There are many teachers unemployed at the moment. The government is still giving everyone the impression it is 'crying out for teachers!!!!' by churning out the 'Those who can, teach' campaign.

    I think you know a bit about my history. I taught in FE for some time. I have PGCE(fe) and lots of KS 3 & 4 experience. However, I was told unless I had QTS, I would find it impossible to get a job in schools.

    So, I took a drop in pay £21,000 to £13,600., to train on the GTP for QTS. The 'training' was a joke and the placement 3 trains away..... I was accelerated to two terms but almost gave up for loaads of reasons. I was treated like dirt, basically. Now, I am on supply....which is fading fast, due to the use of unqualified staff and lack of permanent work.

    It is really sticking in people's guts that the goalposts have moved to allow unqualified staff to 'supervise' whole classes. Particularly as it is well known they are doing a lot more than the standard 2 or 3 days. They are doing the work of supply teachers, and many are planning, marking and teaching.

    They are being paid a pittance and the schools are saving loads of money. Supply teachers are struggling to survive and the kids are being messed around. This is not just about QTS. This is about making a mockery of teaching. Believe it or not, I have evidence of 'lunchtime supervisors' covering classes.
  9. I am evidence!!LSA extroidinaire !! Emergency cover only... apparently..... well apparently not,,, i have been covering all day everyday for 5 months,,, registration, pshe,, you name it. IT, DT, Maths, English, Science, RE etc etc....... I dont have a degree, but luckily i do have a brain in my head. It grieves me to think i see the same kids sometimes 3 lessons out of 5 a day. Which means they havent got a proper supply or normal teacher for that amount of time each day. Yes I have complained, but it appears to fall on deaf ears. I have children of my own and realise how important secondary education is. But apparently its that time of year!!! Sickies etc..... What it boils down to is CASH, schools run as business' now and if they can save money by using TAs or assistants thay will do. I am trying to get out because im disgusted that i have to do it every hour of everyday... what happened to students rights to be taught and not just supervised???? Anyway I am only as good as the coverwork set,,, some depts are excellent however most are appaulling im sad to say... Where do you draw the line?
  10. beameup

    beameup New commenter

    | Posted by: ukred at 05 Feb 2006 18:19
    beameup, if HTLA or NVQ3 or whatever was teacher training...why have PGCEs or GTPs?

    The training you mention is for Teaching ASSISTANTS

    ukred, well,obviously. That was never in question. I would just like to know HOW much the content of these courses differs from PGCE (apart from length). Again, a genuine query. No insult intended.
  11. beameup

    beameup New commenter

    Sorry cornflake, just saw your post. Thanks.
  12. ukred

    ukred New commenter

    beameup, I didn't think it was an insult. It's just that people seem to be forgetting this fact over and over.

    There are so many ways into teaching now. There is no need to exploit people this way. TAs are getting peanuts for doing a teaching job. The odd few are so flattered they think it's fine.

    I did a PGCE(fe). It consisted of 2 years study. 1st year, practical teaching and learning, being observed and filmed (!!!) teaching, also studying all the educational strategists, psychologists etc. The second year was more of a managerial study. Loads of assignments :-( It's taken over 2 years in FE colleges because you have to teach so many hours on top of the study.

    That wasn't 'good enough' for school teaching. So after teaching for 5 years in colleges (including GCSE and Basic Skills English), I was told to do a GTP. This was accelerated to two terms because of my qualifications and experience (very generous!!).

    However, when I was moderated (after being observed 'millions' of times!) I had six desks filled with paper evidence to back up the standards. About ten times more than the PGCE students who were at the same school.

    I have done the TA courses, as I was an LSA in the past. They are on a par with the C&G basic skills course I also did, which took about six weeks.

    Anyone who thinks TA, HLTA training is anywhere near teacher training is a complete idiot.

    It has been said over and over.....it's not about egos and who is better than who. It's 'horses for courses'. If you want to teach, you should train to be a teacher. I wouldn't recommend it though. All the jobs are taken up by cheap, unqualified labour.
  13. and if you want to be a TA ... and the school insist you cover occasional classes because it is in TAs contracts ... be prepared for the barrage of insults that come with it from people who insist you need to be a qualified teacher ! You can't win!
  14. beameup

    beameup New commenter

    Thanks ukred. We shouldn't be getting at each others throats. As namur says, many schools are adding this to TAs contracts. The TAs themselves don't really want this (apart from the few). Most of us much prefer to do what we have always done. Work in small/medium group settings.
    So far I have resisted the pressure to take whole classes, apart from in a dire emergency. This has happened twice so far. Once when a teacher fainted in the class (I think it was the thought of wet play!) and the other when a heavy snowfall prevented staff from getting in.
    Interestingly, since TAs in our school have agreed to cover classes, teacher absence has increased.
    Come on, kiss and make up and lets all march to School Managers and give 'em what for!
  15. ukred

    ukred New commenter

    beameup, namur......you have me completely wrong. I was a TA/LSA. It was also a time when teachers treated you like dirt. TAs had to sit in a certain part of the staffroom! The only teacher who spoke to me told me the others felt threatened because I had a degree in English. I have seen teachers at their worst!!!!!

    The other week I did a weeks supply at a school where no one spoke to me. I had my bag moved off a chair....which must have been someones!!! Later found out it was the TAs area! So yes, you are right...we ARE all in this together. There are some pretty stupid, arrogant people on both sides.

    It's all about money. We are just stuck in the middle...
  16. supplybychoice

    supplybychoice New commenter

    I can understand that TAs teach for the odd lesson now and again when the teacher is not available but I am unser the impression that my daughter will be taught by this TA every maths lesson for the forseeable future which surely cannot be right.
  17. supplybychoice - agree it doesn't seem right if it's the whole class for every maths lesson. Have you asked the school why this is happening?
  18. ukred - I understand what you are saying - we are caughtin the middle so lets call TRUCE!
  19. supplybychoice

    supplybychoice New commenter

    I've now complained properly to the head and Chair of Governors but who else can I complain to if they fob me off again ?

  20. Have just read about this on "Opinion". Good.

    Let's see what comes of it.

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