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My child my choice

Discussion in 'Education news' started by moscowbore, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Actually lots of people do criticise where the royal family and senior politicians send their kids. Both Blair and Cameron made a big show of sending their kids to state schools. Comments about how other European countries have their royal children attend state schools is not at all uncommon on our media.
     
  2. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    No, it's not. I can only assume that you are bisexual, and have made a choice which sexuality to pursue, if you believe this. Most of us don't face this choice.
     
  3. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    But no one stops them. Criticism is one thing, stopping them or telling them that they must give their children a certain prescribed education is another. In this case parents are being told they must allow their children to be taught a certain thing ( not only that, they are essentially implicitly and explicitly being criticised for not affirming that teaching).
     
  4. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    No, but you can assume that I have spent a lot of time studying this subject and it was part of my Ph.D . I used to teach in university - this was my research area. That you can rely on...... but I am not here to play the logical fallacy of argument from authority. I just made a statement - My personal position is I am uncomfortable with teaching something as fact when we are not sure of the fact.
     
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  5. Bond231

    Bond231 New commenter

    If it is such a choice why do people commit suicide about it, surely they would just choose not to be gay or trans. Or if they lived in a country with such strict laws they would surely choose not to be that way rather than face a secret life.

    Your arguments show a real lack of understanding and a thought process that I thought belonged to the 1950s.

    I myself am gay and I did not choose to be that - why anyone would choose to be a minority and face persecution.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  6. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    We do that right across the board. Parents are obliged to send their kids to approved schools, which must - in the main - follow the NC. As I've said before, we teach that different religions and ethnicities exist and have an equal right to respect. Parents are not allowed to take their kids out if they object to that.
     
    Missbubbleblue likes this.
  7. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Not the same.
     
    Missbubbleblue likes this.
  8. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    That says more about you than it does me. But hey ho! Lets not let facts get in the way of your feelings.
     
  9. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    I hate to disillusion you but we do not. We all have the right under the 1944 Education Act to remove our children from school and educate them "Otherwise" as the act says. There is no requirement for an independent school to teach the National Curriculum. So if you either get yourself a home tutor, tutor yourself or send your child to an independent school where the curriculum is to your choice, you do not have to deal with any of the above .So money talks. Its only if you are in a state school you cannot remove your child from sex and relationship education. However, it remains the case that you can still remove them from Religious Education classes.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  10. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    So because you have - apparently - studied this to doctorate level, you feel that you can tell gay and straight people that their sexuality isn't fixed, but a choice. Oh dear . . .
    Yet they still have to be vetted by Ofsted, and can be closed down if, for example, they are found to be teaching things that they shouldn't be.
     
    agathamorse and Missbubbleblue like this.
  11. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    ?
    Parents have the right to remove their child from sex and relationship education.
     
  12. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    Okay, without side-tracking into the "sexuality is/isn't a choice" argument further, surely it's even more important to be taught about if it is a choice?
    If I was going to a restaurant, I'd quite like to see the menu before my food arrived so I could choose what to have. If there were no options and it was a set menu, I probably wouldn't be as concerned... although if others in the room had a different dish to me, I'd like to be aware that this would happen, so I didn't think there was anything wrong with my food.
     
  13. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    So, you are the one with the vested interest in proving your point then? I simply look at the research and draw the conclusions where possible or state we dont have enough evidence.
     
  14. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    But I am not arguing about that. I am arguing from the position of the parents right to decide they do not want their children to hear about the choice . Not everyone wants to go to the restaurant , let alone look at the menu.
     
  15. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    No, they dont - that is the point. Parents can opt their children out of Religious Education but not SRE. If the option to remove their children were the same as for RE, I doubt parents would be complaining at all. They would make their views known with their withdrawal letters.
     
  16. Bond231

    Bond231 New commenter

    I do have a vested interest in not being denied my existence. In living in a country where I don’t have to face violence for something I have no control over.

    Imagine someone said being a women is a choice, having brown hair naturally is a choice. It’s an absurd idea.

    I’m so glad you’ve researched this area so successfully. But I couldn’t disagree with you more and severely hope people with your ideas on the world are not as prevalent as they once were!
     
    agathamorse and JL48 like this.
  17. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    No, I have not said that at all. You are trying to say that. You are trying to discredit anything I say because you have an agenda - you want the evidence to support your chosen perspective and feelings. Facts do not have feelings. I look at the research. I look at what facts there are available within that research and I draw conclusions where I can or say we have do not have the evidence to draw a particular conclusion I say no more than that. Hence I question whether there are sufficient facts here to support what is being taught.

    The difference is that I look at the evidence and ask what conclusions can be drawn and you have a conclusion you want supported and demand I find you something to support it or worse, accept it on faith because you say it.
     
  18. num3bers

    num3bers Occasional commenter

    No, your arguments are not on the same level at all. No one is denying your existence. No one here ( and certainly not me) is suggesting violence toward you in any way. No one is suggesting you cannot feel as you do. However, your argument does not hold up when it comes to evidence and fact. You analogy with being a woman does not hold up at all. they are a different order.

    The difference is that a woman has XX chromosomes. That is a fact. It cannot be changed. It is not about identity or feelings or preferences but about biology. Brown hair is similarly not a choice ( unless you chose to dye your hair). Biologically it is determined by genetics. The evidence in sexual orientation or identity is not so based in fact.

    All of that of course is completely outside of the debate about choice in SRE or the right of parents to make choices about what they want their children to learn. Our schools seem to want to promote a social engineering agenda and it is the right and wrong of that which is under debate essentially.
     
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  19. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Now you're contradicting yourself.
    What utter twaddle.
     
  20. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    Firstly, they do have the right - here. This is under consideration for change in 2020 but is still in effect at the moment.
    The parents have refused to withdraw their individual children and chosen to protest instead. From one of the original articles on the protest (my emphasis);

    "At Parkfield School, SRE has been taught for the last three years, always in July, to Y3, Y5 and Y6.
    "Every year before the lessons are delivered parents are invited to review materials used and are given the option of removing children from the lessons if they wish.
    "In the first week of January 2019, Parkfield school received a steady stream of enquiries about the teaching of SRE and linking No Outsiders to SRE.

    "The headteacher, David Williams and Andrew Moffat have met any parent asking for a meeting and were currently meeting parents about this at least once every day, ‘No Outsiders’ resources are shown and usually parents leave appearing to be reassured and happy with the explanation.

    So the parents can withdraw their individual child from the individual lessons. They're not arguing for this, they're arguing that these lessons should not happen (for their child but also, presumably every other child).
     
    agathamorse likes this.

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