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Moving a Year One to Year Three for English and Maths

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Crazydude, Jun 18, 2011.

  1. Hello, just hoping primary teachers might be able to advise.
    My Year One son's teacher has said that next year she'd like him to skip year two and move to year three for English and Maths. (He would be back with his peers for afternoons).
    Her reasoning was that she wouldn't be able to differentiate for maths, and that generally he was "too big for his boots" (her words).
    Would love to know if this is usual practice ?
    Thank you
     
  2. Hello, just hoping primary teachers might be able to advise.
    My Year One son's teacher has said that next year she'd like him to skip year two and move to year three for English and Maths. (He would be back with his peers for afternoons).
    Her reasoning was that she wouldn't be able to differentiate for maths, and that generally he was "too big for his boots" (her words).
    Would love to know if this is usual practice ?
    Thank you
     
  3. cariad2

    cariad2 New commenter

    I haven't come across it before, and there's no reason why she shouldn't be able to differentiate. I had a year 1 child a few years ago that I needed to provide Year 3 maths work for, and it wasn't a problem.


     
  4. cally1980

    cally1980 Established commenter

    I have some year 3's in my year 4 Maths group
     
  5. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    I have a year 4 in my 5/6 maths group, he is working at a high level 5 and whilst the year 3/4 teacher could differentiate the work to suit, the boy is more comfortable working with a number of children at his level rather than out on his own
     
  6. I was skipped a year in primary completely from year 2 to 4 and then had to do an extra year as a year 4 because they realised that 1) the local high schools would be reluctant to accept me a year early, 2) If they did accept me, I could loose my advantage if my development tapered off and/or my peers' development caught up with mine - ie move you up because you're top of the class and you could end up as bottom of the next class.

    Having said that, my parents sought private tuition for me because the school had failed to teach me at my level and were actually getting me to teach my classmates rather than setting me tailored work. In practical terms, slipping in to a higher maths class is a lot better for him than missing out on development. I can understand that the teacher would be 'unable to differentiate' - probably because the class is taught en masse. It's probably the most simple way of getting him that extra level tuition.

    Also, I would try to embrace what the teachers want to do for him because at least they are on his/your side. I won't go in to details but some of my teachers were not happy that I was there because it meant extra work.
     
  7. I can understand a year 4 working with year 5 and 6s as the age gap makes less of a difference and the routines are the same but I would worry if my KS1 child was working with KS2 children. I would be concerned about the expectations and the level of independence required to work in a KS2 class. I would also worry about the attitude of the class teacher. It sounds like they just can't be bothered. What happens to G&T children in that class? Oh we just get rid of them...
    I like the idea of the teachers liaising with each other and sharing ideas though.
     
  8. greta444

    greta444 New commenter

    We have a year 1 boy working at a secure level 3. We are reluctant to move him up to a higher year group because of the social aspect and the 'maturity' of the older children or visa versa. We can differentiate for him but as one earlier poster said, he's working on his own in class.
     
  9. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Lead commenter

    When my son was in year4 he was doing year 6 maths. It was rubbish because when he was in year 6 there was nothing left for him to do. They tried a bit of extension stuff but mostly he just did what he'd already done, and he wasn't the sort of child who needed to go over everything agiain (he's doing a maths degree now!). Unless the school has a plan for what'll happen later on I would be quite wary, but on the other hand, if he's keen then he'll staahead of the game anyway. My next one down used to read his older brothers' maths textbooks for pleasure when he was at primary school. I tried to get them to be allowed to do something instead of Maths (practise the piano - I offered to come in and help) but was told they had to'do' maths, even though they weren't learning anything. I think maths can be particularly difficult for schools as some children do move ahead very quickly but I'm not sure that putting them with older children, unless there's a proper plan forlater on, is the answer. Third son was very nearly put off maths for life, and it was his passion, because he was fed up of repeating things he knew.

    Tread carefully, but be glad the school has even noticed.
     
  10. Thanks so much - am realising now that I might have been a bit negative - thinking that his teacher just didn't really gel with him. I was surprised too because I hadn't ever thought he was bright, his school report gave grades of 2a and 2b for maths and 1a's for english which didn't seem good, I just assumed he was middle of the road for a year one.
    I teach FE so primary is an unknown world to me.
     
  11. This tells me that the teacher is unable to differentiate for a more able child and what's more the school is letting this happen, it's appalling. It would never ever happen in my school because the teachers are able to do their job which is to provide personalised education for all children in that class as they are the same age.

    What is your son going to do when is old enough to be in Y3? Keep being moved up a year or sit through Y3 maths for the second time? Sounds like an awful idea, sorry.
     
  12. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I think that is totally unacceptable. No way should he be separated from his peers and friends for 10 hours or more a week. And what about on days when things get swapped around, does he do two literacy lessons?

    If your son is working within the bounds of just the year above then there should be no reason at all why the teacher cannot differentiate for him. If your son was about to sit GCSEs in year 2 with a good chance of an A* then I could understand special arrangements, but for working just a little above there is no need at all. Utter laziness on the part of the teacher.

    And the 'too big for his boots' may or may not be true, but it certainly won't be solved by putting him with the class above. He will then have the 'I'm too good for this class' attitude while being excluded from the socially. A recipe for disaster in terms of his behaviour and happiness.

    I would fight against this tooth and nail if it was my son. (And think honestly if his attitude might be as the teacher described and work to curb it a little.)
     
  13. forestje

    forestje New commenter

    No.
     




  14. Another No.




    What do they do with the ones that aren't very good at maths? Keep them in Year 1 for 2 years?
     
  15. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    I do think it is slightly different for the year 4 boy in my 5/6 maths group because he is not so much leaving his year 3/4 friends behind as re-joining his year 5 friends ( who he worked with last year when he was in a year 3/4 class with them!) In September he will then be in my yr 5/6 group with the rest of the current 4's and still with the current 5's ( if you follow me!) Of course differentiated work could be provided for him if he remained with the 3/4's but he would miss out on the interaction and discussion at his level that is part and parcel of learning-he is so far ahead of the 3/4's that there is no-one there to challenge him at all ( and he does like a challenge!)
     
  16. Ramjam

    Ramjam New commenter

    No. I'd be concerned about the teacher. I have 4 really able mathematicians this year, 2 of whom achieved most of the Y2 objectives by October last year so have been taught L3 work. You simply differentiate - and APP has made it much clearer about where to go. This end of the year they are all L3 and 3 of them have achieved all the Y3 objectives. In addition to this other children have benefited from hearing other children explaining maths and the explainers have benefited by verbalising their learning.
    Next year's teacher is aware of this. By the time they get to Y6, I expect they will be secure L5, nevertheless, L5 at KS2 does not, from all points match L5 at KS3 unless you have taught all the work.
    Great to hear your child is making good progress, but I'd hate my child to be labelled 'too big for her boots'.
     
  17. In my 1st year as an NQT I had a little boy in year 1 working at secure level 3 leven by october, I did differentiate, obviously and I had the TA work with him to provide discussion at his level and I set appropriate challenges. He was on the G and T register as everything I taught him (in numeracy) he just 'got'. he really was amazing. It was the head teacher who spoke to me about him and maybe that he could go to year3 for maths once a week.
    I spoke to the year 3 teacher and his mum, and the little boy and they thought it would be a good idea. He was loving the idea so he went every tuesday for an hour, just for maths. He loved it and he had the maturity to cope with it too.
    I think it depends on the child. It gave him a massive confidence boost and he had the maturity to deal with it. I had another child working at a similar but slightly lower level but didnt even consider sending him as he wouldnt have coped.
    I think it depends on the child. I know this littl boy is now in year 3 and he goes to year 5/6 for maths. It was a very close knit school with small classes and everyone knew everybody well. It wasn't that I coukdnt differentiate, I could, but i wanted him to work with children at his level, not always adults.
    Doodles
     
  18. In other countries, like France, that's exactly what they do!
     
  19. A friend's son skipped Year 5 and went to Year 6, after she battled for it (very gifted son.) Then the secondary schools refused to take him so he had to be home-schooled for a year while waiting to start. What did he learn in that year? The entire year7 curriculum and more. I am not sure how boring he found year 7, having done it all before, but at least it was a top Grammar school so I hope they were able to keep him challenged/interested.
    If we continue to insist on children staying in groups determined by age, then at least we should be streaming them to make differentiation manageable, especially when the ability range is so marked like this.
    Mixed ability teaching can benefit the LA but it's a nightmare for the HA, as I remember from my own comprehensive school days, where we were only set for Maths.
    I got fed up having to answer my classmates constant requests for help, and they also told me, in those exact words, that I'd got "too big for my boots." I will never forget that.
     
  20. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    But one hour a week, almost as a treat, is very different than for at least 10 hours a week which is what the OP is suggesting will happen to her son. Would you have been quite so happy with him going for 10 or more hours a week?
     

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