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Discussion in 'Education news' started by ridleyrumpus, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    They are the lazy way, not the only way.
  2. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    Probably. But why have children become so incredibly unruly? There were children at my school who were a bit of a pain but not in any big way, and not in lessons. And we were not bribed with stickers and charts and nor were we heavily punished. But we were socialised for school. What's gone wrong? Are the stickers from age dot at the too early start of school partly responsible for the lack of self discipline and the seeming lack of respect for teachers?
    agathamorse, lanokia and Alice K like this.
  3. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    And what, pray tell, is the real alternative? Can you find me a school that uses such methods with a solid Ofsted report and good academic results? Go on. I'm dying to know.
  4. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The fact that you think there aren't any shows you know very little about UK education. I doubt you teach, and if you do, you certainly don't keep abreast of professional matters. I noticed long ago that proponents of ZT think almost all schools are war zones and all children are just waiting to behave badly at every possible opportunity.
  5. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    It's always sunny in LaLaLand, isn't it?
    BTBAM85 likes this.
  6. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Is that the best response to my points you could muster?
  7. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    Ad hominem to ad hominem.
  8. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    You still haven't given me an example of such a school. Cloud cuckoo land.
  9. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    You should be aware - if you are involved in education - that there are many.

    Thanks for the insult. Certainly helps your case.
  10. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    I've asked for evidence but you've presented none.



    And, in case you missed it. None.

    These idyllic schools of yours do not exist. You are defending approaches the Soviet Union abandoned in 1929.

    Do yourself a favour and keep up with the rest of us.
  11. Doug1943

    Doug1943 New commenter

    That was exactly the question I was wanting to ask Scintillant: name one or two of these wonderful schools, so we can check their GCSE results. My experience as a volunteer teacher preparing kids for the Maths Challenge, in leafy Surrey, would indicate that, while not War Zones, there is plenty of low-level disruptive talking, even in top-set selected groups, and sometimes outright disruption. Perhaps my fault for not having the right 'classroom control' skills, or an uncharismatic personality, but I can see why so many NQTs leave the profession after a few years.

    Anyway, I wait eagerly to see the names of one or two 'progressive' schools -- the anti-Michaelas -- so I can check their GCSE results, and also their pupil intake.
  12. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The evidence on ZT schools is now extensive and clear. Try typing it into Google Scholar and seeing what comes up.

    I could name you some schools, plenty of them, but it's not my style. If you were a teacher, you'd be aware anyway.

    Your reference to the Soviet Union is a little weird but belies your political approach to this...

    Try a different approach if you are a teacher. You might find upskilling is a positive, empowering experience.
  13. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Progressive? What are you on about?

    Again, that seems to belie a political approach. It's just positive behaviour management. It's much more enjoyable working in such an atmosphere than in a place where children are excluded and off-rolled to help a school's results.

    Try it. Unless you think all the Outstanding schools in the UK follow ZT policies...
  14. DrJay

    DrJay Occasional commenter

    Enforce the same level of discipline across the other half of the country and you see what happened.

    Children's disengaged attitude to learning is, in partly teacher's fault. In my NQT year, I was shocked by children's attitude in lessons. I consistently demanded order where chaos reigned and discipline where indiscipline persisted. Very quickly, I came across as difficult. To my face, colleagues asked if I didn't know that was how teenagers behave. This suggests indiscipline had become accepted as norm. Of course, I left the school for a saner one where over time not only do students know that stuff tolerated elsewhere in the school are not tolerated in my room, but also know the serious consequences of not submitting assignments, turning up late, and not bringing the right equipment. Correspondingly, my results, year on year are fantastic.
  15. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Yes, it's all about you.
  16. harpplayer

    harpplayer Occasional commenter

    I'll never work in a UK school again unless it's a grammar or private one, or one like this school. Dubai is just far better.

    Mobile phones were the biggest cause of disruption when I was in the UK, but they were never properly dealt with, ever. Nearly all the newer teachers themselves couldn't even stop using them or glancing at them in class either! Poor behaviour was just accepted as teenage stuff, so it inevitably got worse. The SLTs I had the misfortune to work under were hopeless at writing a behaviour policy that worked, or enforcing the one they invented. They were very good however at coming up with more and more petty tasks for teachers to do and depriving teachers of the time to help students and deal with problems.

    It was as if the school managers had forgotten they were the adults in the school and they were there to set boundaries and ensure students learn, all students. By accepting poor behaviour from a few, by accepting constant low level disruption and by having flexible boundaries, everything quickly spun out of control for everyone.

    Well done Michaela.
    BTBAM85 likes this.

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