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Michaela

Discussion in 'Education news' started by ridleyrumpus, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Oh, you mean the genuinely good schools that the British education system is actually famous for ? Now that's a surprise !
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  2. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    I went to university with JRM's nephew. He's a nasty piece of work, but JRM is not too bad on a personal level, I'm told.

    It might say something that Michael was the last school I ever applied to work in. The sheer awfulness of the things has been too much for me ever since.
     
  3. Catgirl1964

    Catgirl1964 Occasional commenter

    There is a very strict secondary like Michaela near my state secondary. They have 'lost' many students who did not conform to the strict rules. These students end up being absorbed by a number of the local schools and the strict school is left with the students who will tow the line, subsequently reducing the behaviour of the schools to which the students have moved. Almost a type of ethnic cleansing of students.
     
  4. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Not a surprise
    Yes, Nanny drummed manners into him. His sister is a friend of a friend too, so I assume she's ok. Or at least fun.
     
  5. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    He is a bit cagey though, a bit like Birbalsingh. I wrote to him about his book, but I got a disappointingly curt reply, complete with, 'Esq.'
     
  6. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    To be honest, the majority of students will benefit. If Michaela is too strict, then the vast majority of schools are too lax.
     
    Doug1943 and ridleyrumpus like this.
  7. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Tends to be the case from those on the extremes. Don't want people to know / see how they really think.
    Or just poorly led ? My second inner city state school was 'lax' but had superb behaviour in the vast majority of classes and around the school. That said, the Head was outstanding - but forward thinking and completely child centred. That, of course, was when that kind of thing was still allowed in state schools.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  8. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    I'll ask you as well then: How do you evidence people being dissuaded from attending a school?

    Even Ofsted have identified at least 300 schools where they suspect it is happening,

    And you turn up to defend it. Like you defend a few other "dodgy" things these days.

    Nice.
     
  9. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The sort of teachers who like Zero Tolerance schools seem to have no real personality, no charisma, can't get on with young people, and can't forge positive relationships.

    Zero surprise there.
     
    NoseyMatronType and JL48 like this.
  10. sabram86

    sabram86 Occasional commenter

    Again, what's the real alternative? I've never been in a state school, bar Michaela, where behaviour can genuinely be described as good. Positive relationships are all well and good, but learning to be a decent, disciplined person is more important than chumminess.
     
    agathamorse and Doug1943 like this.
  11. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The conflation of positive working relationships with "chumminess" is only made by those who can't forge positive working relationships with young people.
     
    Jamvic likes this.
  12. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    According to their website there cohort is from the local catchment are any can apply and they selection is done by ballot by the local authority.

    Are they being economical with the truth?
     
    Doug1943 likes this.
  13. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    I met once a very decent but also scarily zealous guy who ended up in the SLT at Michaela. He hailed from the North and, like me, knew the value of a good education and its power to lift those who use their skills and do the graft out of poverty and up a class. Yes, he was good. The kids were lucky to have him. BUT. This is a free school, isn't it? Like a pet project, really. The brand seems to have done well, although I dimly recall a weird documentary on the school where one of the teachers got dressed up as a Clown for gawdsake. You can go too far with the kids, sometimes. i just don't feel that their formula cannot easily be replicated elsewhere. And there are other academies for the kids unable to hack Michaela's strict discipline so they are able to continue their regime as they wish. So far. Wonder what will happen if aspirational parents with super-bright kids with special educational needs start to put more pressure on the system? Also, if all the academies were as strict as this school is, their overall intakes would drop spectacularly. It would be off-rolling in extremis. I believe that we do have to educate out kids, however gobby and disruptive they are. Now what WOULD be interesting is setting up 'Free Traineeship Depots', specialising in 'T levels', BTECs, GNVQs...all those key courses which can take kids directly into trade, skills and work. I'd argue that utter obedience, total focus and a strict work ethic are even MORE important in these places than in those following the academic curricula. But there will always be damaged kids who are just not cut out for school and need well-funded PRUs to scrape through and be the first of what might end up having to be a three generation move towards a better life. One size does not fit all, so we shouldn't see this school as the only solution. Good so far!
     
    Catgirl1964 likes this.
  14. SEBREGIS

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    I think this is half the problem!

    The Michaela school stands out because they have a very strong behaviour policy and genuinely high expectations. And we automatically assume that children would not be able to cope with this, probably because we are used to poor behaviour in our own schools and believe that's normal.

    Michalea believe that all children can adapt to an environment with a strong behaviour policy. If they are right, then the half of the country we are worried about would do equally well if taught in that way. And they have shown that their approach works because there is very little evidence that they are creaming off the most willing pupils in their area.

    For myself, I've seen the opposite at work. Really nice children learning to be dreadful by following the example of those around them, and realising that schools don't support teachers.

    A strong behaviour policy allows teachers to teach and pupils to learn. But it requires an SLT that will support their staff and staff who are prepared to be seen as horrible .
     
  15. SEBREGIS

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    Hang on, I resent that! :)

    I'm a firm believer in ZT and I have at least a bit of a personality. I've never had a problem building good working relationships with students. You're thinking about the kind of evil, humourless b'stards who see any individuality in a child as something to be stamped out.

    The best teachers I've worked with have all had a line - stay on the right side of it, do your best, be respectful, and learning was a fun experience. But step across it even an inch and that would be picked up on. You don't have to be evil to enforce every single rule. And equally, you do the build strong relationships with kids by letting them do what they want.
     
    agathamorse, Doug1943 and sabram86 like this.
  16. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    One of the very reasons why I've just retired at 57 from my school. I could have done with more years in salary and pension but I just could not stand seeing this happening more and more every year. This particular school is considered as a very good school but all I could see was low/medium disruption spreading like a vile poison year after year. Having good results should not mean turning a blind eye to discipline,IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  17. SEBREGIS

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    Discipline has become a bit of a dirty word, frankly. The assumption is that if you are really firm with the children it crushes their creativity and makes school a horrible experience. I've found the opposite - when the children feel safe, they enjoy school more. When they know they have to work in the classroom, they achieve more. When they are good representatives of their school, you want to organise trips and events for them. And when every teacher can just go into their classroom and teach - my God that makes a difference to your working day.

    Unfortunately, the cheap option (well, its down to the teachers behaviour management, isn't it. Some teachers are just better at that than others) is still winning out. Its hilarious to watch people trying to undermine Michaela's results because they hate the very concept of a strong, centralised behaviour system and want it to fail. But - yeah - it clearly didn't.
     
    agathamorse and Doug1943 like this.
  18. SEBREGIS

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    The brand seems to have done well, although I dimly recall a weird documentary on the school where one of the teachers got dressed up as a Clown for gawdsake. You can go too far with the kids, sometimes.

    I greatly doubt they do this very often! They are very clear that teachers are there as teachers, not entertainers!

    i just don't feel that their formula cannot easily be replicated elsewhere.

    Why not?

    And there are other academies for the kids unable to hack Michaela's strict discipline so they are able to continue their regime as they wish. Also, if all the academies were as strict as this school is, their overall intakes would drop spectacularly. It would be off-rolling in extremis.

    I don't see it that way. I think children's expectations would just change. And the majority of disruption in schools comes from 'floating voters' who behave badly because they see other children getting away with it.

    I believe that we do have to educate out kids, however gobby and disruptive they are.

    Devils Advocate here really, but - why? Education is a right, but children MUST be educated. Therefore it's not really a right at all, it's a law. But no one is going to throw a child into prison for breaking it, so where does the responsibility lie? If students refuse to be educated, or worse, make that impossible for others, I think we have to seriously question our 'responsibility' for that child. I'm all in favour of apprenticeships and vocational education outside the classroom, of much more access to education post 18 - but I suspect we've all taught children who should just not be in a classroom until they are legally able to get on with their lives.
     
  19. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    Which probably means that it will be hard to repeat the magic elsewhere, due to narrow minded SLT academy cartels.
     
  20. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Yes, with better teachers, who can hack the kids.
     
    JL48 likes this.

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