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Meanwhile, in France...

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    upload_2019-1-28_19-13-59.png

    https://twitter.com/BasedPoland/status/1089813754425065472

    Now this post is to show the video of a police man breaking a protestor's nose. Yes, the author has the word ''Poland'' in the title. However, it is the video that is the interesting thing.

    And the point about the ongoing silence from the EU as the French State engages in violent repression of legitimate protest.
     
  2. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

  3. vinnie24

    vinnie24 Lead commenter

  4. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter


    It's all about a reasonable compromise - if the speed limit is too low (e.g. 20 kph), then it will be ignored; if it is too high for the type of road, there will be more serious accidents/deaths. Most roads are not 'policed' by the police or speed cameras, but rely on sensible driving.
     
  5. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter

  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Possible grenade injury in France's weekend civil war:

     
  7. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Saw that... that the police are using grenades to subdue the protests is highly disturbing... and probably why the numbers are relatively low... who wants to get hit by a grenade for just disagreeing with a government.
     
  8. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    I was listening to a French person on radio 4 commenting on the huge rise in knife crime in England. Apparently knife crime is rare in France. They have a huge problem with guns, which come from Eastern Europe.
    I could see an escalation in violence if the Police continue to use grenades and other extremely violent tactics.
     
  9. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    It seems the protester attempted to pick up a rubber pellet grenade and it exploded in his hand.
     
  10. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    sparkleghirl likes this.
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    fadeyushka_1967 and artboyusa like this.
  13. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    How do you tell which side is which ?

    Or does it matter.
     
    sparkleghirl likes this.
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

  15. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Ah dear, we laugh but it's not genuine mirth. It's despair at where we're headed. If someone wanted to pave the way for a nasty, authoritarian regime they could do worse than to foment this kind of conflict between 'ordinary' citizens. It wouldn't be the first time - it's happened before and it seems we've forgotten how it started.

    Wherever this is taking us, it's not a good place.
     
  16. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    artboyusa likes this.
  17. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    primarycat likes this.
  18. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    More violence in the images of anti govt protests coming from France and Haiti than those coming from Venezuela.
     
  19. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

  20. fraisier

    fraisier Occasional commenter

    The CRS (riot police, like the one in post 356) do a very tough job and many CRS are reasonable. I, or many friends and relatives of mine in France, have even met some in demonstrations who were even pleasant! There have been some shocking things done to the police during the Gilets Jaunes protests (by anarchists, Black Blocs, ultra-leftists/rightists and other extremists, some of them Gilets Jaunes); they’ve had acid thrown to them, have been pelted with all sorts of dangerous projectiles (including breeze blocks thrown from high up, clearly with the intention to kill), some officers were isolated and beaten up, they had their cars torched while inside and only managed to escape by the skin of their teeth.
    However, a small number of police officers, especially CRS, are insane and a serious menace to society, they’re thugs basically and too often are allowed to continue their thuggery for years in total impunity when, really, they should at the very least be sacked, fined and barred from working near any public for ever. Unfortunately, the police corporation close ranks like no other - they sure know how to protect their own.

    I believe the Met Police acts on similar “principles” (a law onto themselves), they’re well known for that. Not sure about how other police forces in the UK but there’s been quite a few shocking things happening in the UK too. Near me, recently we had the Judah Adunbi case. Also for instance what happened to that poor Brazilian electrician who was shot dead by police for no reason in the London tube.

    The main problem with the police in France is that little serious happens to the real rotten apples amongst them when they overstep that line, unless it’s filmed, and even so, it’s not a guarantee that much at all will happen to them. So, impunity begets impunity basically and the police seem to be happy to keep a small % of rotten apples in their ranks (police unions are powerful). The culprits have to be identified first of course and it’s not always easy (given the protective gear they wear) or it’s not something that their unit bosses will readily divulge or investigate. In a nutshell, they’re protected to ridiculous levels, especially the Gendarmes who are part of the military.

    The French IPCC, internal Affairs (IGPN for the French police and IGGN for the Gendarmerie) do investigate and do deliver sanctions (cf this Obs article) but by and large they tend to adopt an exculpatory approach. You do get the strong feeling that, in too many cases, the punishments given to those police officers and gendarmes are often perfunctory and that they overwhelmingly side with their colleagues even when evidence points to the contrary.

    (as per the article). In 2015, the IGPN (police internal affairs) received 2,491 complaints (12% for violence by police officers) and as a result 2,113 disciplinary sanctions were meted out and 47 police managers were sacked or “retired”. The IGGN (Gendarmerie internal affairs) received 1,097 complaints, of which 29 were for violence. Out of those 29 cases, presumably the more serious ones from the viewpoint of the ordinary public, the IGGN concluded that none was really valid and only 13 disciplinary sanctions were in the Gendarmerie for “illegitimate violence”.

    OK, out of 4 million+ police interventions a year, about 200 acts of violence (mostly during demonstrations) doesn’t seem high but many more go unreported, especially during demonstrations. But whether it’s 20, 200 or 2,000 is irrelevant: what matters here is the end result and what happens in fine to rotten cops. Each one of these acts should be investigated fairly and thoroughly (I believe it's not the case) and the police should take more steps to root out the rotten apples in their midst (they clearly aren't). If they did that, they would certainly gain in popularity and credibility. The vast majority of people do accept that rotten apples unfortunately exist in any line of work. But what's not accepted by the general public is that not much is done to sort out those who continuously abuse their powers.

    The rest of the article goes on to analyse what happens to these “bad cops” at a judiciary level (for the serious cases – violence, abuse of power, corruption etc.) and finds that, well, not much really: prison sentences are dished out but 96% of them are suspended sentences. 37% of the sentences are fines, for an average amount of (only) €724.

    As an individual, since 2013, you are entitled to directly contact Internal Affairs for them to investigate any perceived breach of police conduct, so that’s a progress and there is less impunity and more transparency than there used to be but there’s so much more to do to restore faith in the police. A ban on the use of those dreadful flashball guns (extensively used during the Gilets Jaunes protest actions, a few people have been severely injured including some losing an eye) during demonstrations would be a good start as would be far more proactive action from the police forces themselves to expel the incompetents from the ranks as soon as gross misconduct is clearly established, such as this appalling clip with the disabled man that’s being gassed. That CRS may be investigated but don’t hold your breath as to what will happen to him (probably so.d all).
     
    lanokia likes this.

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