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May backs grammar school expansion

Discussion in 'Education news' started by emerald52, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. stupot101

    stupot101 Established commenter

    Sorry. Pressed <Return> by mistake:(

    I doubt that our 'beloved politicians' are reading this forum themselves. However, you can be sure that they are aware of what is being discussed. :(

    Politicians do care about what we think. It provides information for their PR departments, in order to become more electable. It also provides them with plenty of time to 'organise', colaborate with the very wealthy (ie. top 0.01%) and change the rules to suit their purpose:(
  2. nearmiss

    nearmiss Lead commenter

    The money isn't there for any of this. The only way this will actually roll out as a national strategy will be at the expense of someone else. It is is a divisive policy that undermines social mobility and social cohesion.
    Teachers who choose to work in the lower tier schools, if they ever happen, will be considered unaspirational.
    Tuition as a spin off industry will flourish further undermining schools and favouring those who can afford it.
    People who move house with work will be at a loss to place their kids in comparable schools.
    Rural schools will suffer.
    Why are exam factories good?
    emerald52 likes this.
  3. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    They are very stressful to work in let me tell you.

    I don't think this will happen to be honest.
    emerald52 likes this.
  4. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    And also there are nowhere near enough votes in the Commons or the Lords to pass the required changes - the whole proposal is just theory, not practical.
    emerald52 likes this.
  5. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    I wonder what would happen if the issue was put to a referendum?
  6. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Do you not find it a bit sad though that all the Tories seem to be able to think about or care aout is the very bright kids at the top of the ability range

    It's the next strata down that needs attention.

    All REAL teachers know this.
    delnon, emerald52 and vannie like this.
  7. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Saluki you can have grammars and secondary moderns or comprehensives, but not grammars and comprehensives. Best to have excellent comprehensives so everyone can do well.
    Middlemarch and vannie like this.
  8. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

    In that case I'll take it more seriously.

    Give me ten minutes to stick together some anecdotes about kids that were transformed by their experiences at Scumsville High. I'll see if I can throw one in by the person that lost faith in Scumville's capacity to support the feral scum but who later came to realise that youngsters were more insightful than they could ever realise and were only reacting to their own terrible prejudices. Eventually they understood this and saw that they were better off working in a place of cold isolation. Cold storage I think.

    Oh yes we'll need some rich kid that didn't go to a posh school and turned out ok, hmmm. Well let's have a go at the kids that left Scumsville without a criminal record and drug habit...

    I don't believe politicians give a **** about teacher's opinions. Have you noticed the past decade?
    stupot101 likes this.
  9. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Actually the whole country never had the selective system.
  10. SteveKindle

    SteveKindle Occasional commenter

    This lays bare the hypocrisy of May's position.

    They say "We want all comprehensives to be excellent". When this doesn't work (by their definitions) they sat "Let's have a selective system!"

    But it'll be the same teachers, same buildings, same exams, same curriculum. So if it's not the teachers, buildings, exams or curriculums which are the problem, what is it?

    And that 'what it is' is the problem with the system. Not the teachers (and so on).
    emerald52 likes this.
  11. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Not quite - admission to Oxbridge also includes interviews, subject entrance exams and other criteria.

    I was allowed a dictionary for my Latin exam due to mild dyslexia but had the usual History essay entrance exam and two interviews (both at my only choice as I assumed that I wouldn't get in; I did)

    emerald52 likes this.
  12. SteveKindle

    SteveKindle Occasional commenter

    I take your point. But they clearly don't think that studying for 'A' Levels for 2 years holds anyone back.
  13. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    To me, the essential problem is the self-serving crooks incompetent politicians who ruin run the UK. I find it incomprehensible that one of the world's richest economies is in the hands of people who will not invest in this country's future.

    To me, the grammar school issue is a red herring, yet another piece of political skulduggery by the Nasty Party. Whatever they say, on the basis of their track record they are unfit to run the proverbial whelk stall and as likely to invest in the education of other peoples' children as Ebbsfleet FC are to win this season's Premier League and FA Cup.

    My ideal would be a properly-funded state school system with different schools for different abilities. So yes, grammar schools for the academics, but also technical schools (we used to have them) for the future engineers we need so much, IT schools, Art/Performing Arts schools, Sports schools, and SEN Schools, and so on.

    Schools would be small: no impersonal factories where the Head doesn't even know the names of the pupils, if indeed s/he ever has time to leave the office; schools of, say, 500-600 pupils.

    It would cost. But I would move the DfE out of Sanctuary buildings and relocate it in a closed school, to put a few feet back on the ground and to re-invest the £25 million a year rent in the education service it is supposed to be running.

    It would also require backbone - something lacking in the political establishment - to tackle the rabid prejudices of some sections of the media and administer the metaphorical spanking they deserve.

    It won't happen. So, regrettably, it'll continue to be meddle, muddle, bluster and blather.
    sabrinakat likes this.
  14. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    I believe what they have in mind is allowing new free schools to be opened which are selective. They will almost certainly open in more prosperous areas and fill up with the children of the better-off. There will be no 'planning' country-wide or even county-wide (there cannot be the latter, because LAs are forbidden from opening new schools) , so the likes of Young or Birbalsingh who fancy starting a grammar school will do so wherever they fancy opening one.
  15. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    I've read through this thread with great interest; as an American, my educational experience was quite different - the various school districts are funded from local taxes = good state schools. In the Northern Virginia/Maryland/DC triangle, there are excellent state and independent schools, so a great selection. I went to good state schools that catered for both academic (honours classes), not-academic (regular level) and vocational within the same school. I was able to focus on art, history, English and French in honours classes but maths (regular). Class sizes were under 20 and nearly 98% of students went onto some sort of further education or a vocational apprenticeship. We had a large amount of students going to Ivy League or the top 30 universities in the UK with a sizable group going to the two state universities (University of Virginia and William and Mary) with another group to more vocational qualifications. That system seemed to work quite well but it was in the wealthier suburbs and many parents had money in order to send their children to private schools as well (Sidwell Friends where Chelsea Clinton went and the Obama daughters attended is an example); of course, there are/were pockets and areas of poverty, federal funds would be given but many times, due to the lack of funding, their state schools were awful but with little opportunity to move to a better school, eg. no possibility of a grammar.

    As a parent living in the Kent area, we are sending our only child to an independent school because I want him to be in.a smaller class size and for all the pastoral extras. He's 4 - I want him to have a good start, whatever he/we decide when he is 11.

    As a teacher, I worked at a grammar school last year with class sizes of 32; there were about 75% who belonged there, 20% who didn't and struggled academically and 5% that should be in jail. The 6th form was selective but KS3 was a war zone with knives, fights, hate crimes, etc. 'But it's a grammar; they're good kids....' Ah, no.

    I currently teach in an independent school and am very happy here - my subject -Latin - isn't taught at many state schools, so I will probably remain in this sector.

    The idea of social mobility seems antiquated in my opinion and perhaps a whole variety of schools not just grammars will give students the best opportunities but only if they are willing; if not....then what?
  16. loopylala1

    loopylala1 New commenter

    sabrinakat but KS3 was a war zone with knives, fights, hate crimes, etc.

    lol, I would really love to know which Kent Grammar School this is/was

    independent school because I want him to be in.a smaller class size and for all the pastoral extras. He's 4 - I want him to have a good start, whatever he/we decide when he is 11.

    Of course the 11 plus prep. will also be an added bonus no doubt ;-)
  17. loopylala1

    loopylala1 New commenter

    sabrinakat my subject -Latin - isn't taught at many state schools, so I will probably remain in this sector.

    even the lowest performing school in my area teaches Latin. Its the perfect place for you to work if you are used to knife fights, hate crimes etc.

  18. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

  19. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Thanks for your very constructive comments to the overall thread :p
  20. redlamp2

    redlamp2 Occasional commenter

    Antiquated? It never happened.

    This is a country where William the Conqueror's descendants still hold most of their land!
    Middlemarch and sabrinakat like this.

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