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Mathematics-what do we want!

Discussion in 'Mathematics' started by Zebfriedman, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. Zebfriedman

    Zebfriedman New commenter

    I have the chance to stand in front of all the secondary headteachers in our area and tell them what would attract maths teachers to the area. I have some ideas:

    Time to study e.g.
    Half a day a fortnight protected to study for an MA
    Access to high quality local CPD
    A chance to work across local school networks
    Anyone else got any ideas?
  2. Karvol

    Karvol Occasional commenter

    Extra salary and a reduced timetable.
  3. pencho

    pencho New commenter

    You've already asked this question in another thread.
  4. I would welcome time to study, ie read around Maths and be creative with what I can do with the kids. I woud hate having to study for a Masters in Education, which would detract from teaching.
    An enhanced CPD program is likely to push me away.

    In reality what would attract me is more money (ie what I would earn in industry) and a smaller timetable (giving me the time to be more creative with my teaching). That's pretty much it.

  5. googolplex

    googolplex Occasional commenter

    More money? I think this card is over played. Reasonably happy with what I earn as HoD - if I went into SLT (which I previously have), I'd earn a few quid more for a whole lot more hassle. I don't much care what they earn in 'industry'. I'd be lost if I tried to do their job, just like they'd be lost if they tried to do mine. I get 13 weeks holidays a year - worth another £10K at least, I'd say... Obviously, if someone offered me more, I wouldn't grumble!
    We need more preparation time, more opportunities for lesson research, training, etc. An hour here and there makes no difference since it often gets taken up with day to day issues. What about sabbaticals....!? Now, there's a thing! A fortnight, or even a half term off timetable to develop some particular aspect of one's work... That would make a real difference.

  6. Agree with googolplex and those saying more time off to develop lesson ideas/research. CPD can often be a total waste of time, effort and money, particularly if it is a 'whole school' CPD that you are then supposed to apply to maths. We had some training earlier in the year by a 'lead practitioner' on 'Lazy Teaching', I came away feeling utterly dispirited that he seemed to suggest teaching be reduced to being little more than a stand up comic.

    Regarding cash, I think it's a bit of a myth that people in industry are paid far more. True, an investment banker wouldn't get out of bed for the amount someone on UPS 3 is being paid but there are an awful lot of management jobs out there that are paying sub-£30k, and without the holidays that we get. Teaching can be very stressful, particularly with challenging classes, but the pay in comparison to what most people have to get by on isn't bad.
  7. Maths_Mike

    Maths_Mike New commenter

    Well according to some (including on this forum) there is no shortage of maths teachers and so you should have no problems recruiting on current terms and consitions - i.e salary and holiday - which for what we do compares favourable to many other professions.
    If you want my honest opinion about what would attrtact me to a school.
    Supportive management who recognised the unique nature of maths as a subject and did not try and enforce silly whole school gimicks like BLP.
    Support where required with behaviour including departmental TA's etc. so the unruley disruptors can be dealt with.
    Some time to develop as a department would be nice be could be done by reducing needless meetings and making departmental meeting about mathematics not admin.
    Focus not entirely on jumping through hoops and getting a C at any cost while ignoring students who cnat get a C (or who are guaranteed one)
    No manipulation of exams. Exams at the end of year 11 for the vast majority.
    A couple of grand (not a lot in the scheme of things) extra to the departmental budget would make a big difference in most departments I have worked in.
    An opportunity to teach A Level is also important to me personally but would not be essential for everyone
  8. Tandy

    Tandy New commenter

    Teacher's salaries are fine, so wouldn't go down that line of appeal.
    I have always found that what people really want is a culture that allows them to have autonomy, to feel respected as a professional, one where their opinions are valued and they feel they are able to learn from others within and beyond the school.
    School leaders need to focus on what makes a differernce to children and buffer out all of the crappy initiatives that are handed down from government. They need to have an attitude that says we as a school are the ones best placed to make these decisions. They need to trust the professionals in the organisations.
    Teachers should be allowed to experiment with their own pedagogies. None of this ******** of dictating three part lessons or flippin levelling work every lesson etc etc etc.
    So, I'd agree with those that are talking about it being about a culture. Get that right and you'l always have enough maths teachers
  9. Sounds like aweful CPD, and unfortunately fairly typical.
    But I wasn't talking about most people. I was talking about people with maths or related degrees, and they do get more than I do in industry. I knew this when I became a teacher so don't complain, but in relaion to the OP more money for the same job would attract me.
  10. googolplex

    googolplex Occasional commenter

    I'd be really surprised if teachers came off that badly. Do you have hard evidence to back this up?
    Even where salaries are more competitive in the private sector, job security is such that, over a life time of employment, things even out. Yes, it is certainly true that you can earn alot more in industry. However, my experience is that only some are called, even fewer are chosen.
  11. My evidence is:
    1) I earned more as an intern (if you include housing - which was rather nice!).
    2) The vast majority of my peers who graduated at the same level as me, having done the same degree at the same university, who work in the private sector earn considerably more than me.
    3) I have been repeatedly asked if I would consider working for a specific bank for more than I currently earn.
    4) There are plenty of job adverts for jobs that pay more than I earn:

    However, I enjoy my job as a teacher. It's a great job. I knew it wouldn't pay as well when I started. But more money for the same job would certainly be attractive.
  12. googolplex

    googolplex Occasional commenter

    It must be great to be in such demand. However, such evidence doesn't convince me. On point 4, for example, there may be plenty of adverts but it doesn't mean that maths graduates are candidates for them. Loads end up in dead end marketing/ICT roles... Still, each to their own...

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