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Marking

Discussion in 'Primary' started by Sally006, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    In light of the NEU webinar on Friday, handling books seems to be out, unless you allow 72 hours between handling. I appreciate that for Maths (though I still like to give some comment) and grammar etc kids can self mark.

    We need to give daily feedback and make daily assessments in order to refine our teaching. Ok, kids can leave books open for us to view but what about page turning? The issue of marking writing is the biggest concern here as so much more is needed. I did think highlighters could be used if only the pen touches the page and even post-its as that would be touched from teacher to individual but no cross contamination from one book to another and avoids the teacher handling 30+ potentially contaminated books. How is this any different to touching photocopies or paper resources we will inevitably dish out every day! This is teacher to pupil not pupil to teacher which I assume is ok?

    How are you addressing the marking issues in your schools?
     
    Rozario123 likes this.
  2. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Do we need to do this in a written way though? Many schools have policies of 'no written feedback' and children still make progress.
    Washing hands, wearing gloves, wearing a mask will all help with virus protection.

    How much do staff in your school work with the union rep? How many are in the NEU? (Not sure of NASUWT guidance on marking) Would they work together to insist on the union line being taken? Will the rep lead on this?

    You may just need to bring your school into the modern age and have no written feedback.
     
    Slave1138 likes this.
  3. handee2

    handee2 New commenter

    I agree that children need feedback so self marking for short tasks seem the way forward. Equally, a response to writing could be to ask pupils to read sections aloud for comment but that won't help with punctuation, spelling and some sentence construction improvements. I think I will try to pair children with a more able writer in class to peer assess with a checklist of areas to highlight- these could be laminated so they could be disinfected.

    There is a school of thought that the most effective marking is that completed by teacher with the pupil on the same day and that might become the "new normal" but this will affect the way we work with children. This issue needs to be raised with colleagues at your school during the first few days back so agreement over the best way forward can be achieved,
     
    Sally006 likes this.
  4. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    Umm. “Bring your school into the modern age” implies you think my school is backward based on no knowledge of our practices so a bit insulting to be honest and at best judgmental. As it happens we work hard in getting pupils to self regulate and peer assess but this take time and training and in the early days of the return to school they will not yet be ready for this. We can of course start them off early. As I said, general daily verbal feedback from common errors and misconceptions is normal practice but writing is highly individualised and poses a bigger problem than Maths and Grammar.

    A colleague has this sorted as they have a 1:1 tablet access in years 5 and 6. This allows him to use a fabulous program where he can give recorded voice feedback or written and kids can electronically submit during the lesson sentences or paragraphs for comment. We have no such luxury and previously trotted round looking a books or whiteboards but don’t see how we do that now.

    Considering the quality alluded to in the latest guidance we need to be on top of progress for learning effectively from the off. I don’t agree that all written comment is obsolete with older pupils at all. It still has its place.
     
    sooooexcited and hhhh like this.
  5. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Then we can agree to disagree. It's been about 7 years since I worked in schools where they still had written feedback as standard. Some teachers still like to write on children's work in my current school, but they are aware it is for them and not the child.

    Schools who do not routinely write comments on children's work, and haven't for some time, still enable outstanding progress, pupil self regulation and so on. I moved to nursery two years ago from KS2, where I have spent most of my career. Some teachers do lots of written marking and some very little and always have. It makes no difference at all to pupil progress. Feedback and discussion of successes and errors during the process of the task makes a huge difference, as does shared and modelled examples. However written feedback, usually on a piece of finished work, makes little difference, even with children using 'purple pens of progress' to edit or whatever the latest fad is.

    If you must write on children's work, then presumably you are thinking of extended writing, which could be done on paper and then left for 72 hours before you mark it to keep with NEU guidance. But you'd need to ensure all union members felt the same way and were wanting to do the same thing.
     
    jarndyce likes this.
  6. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    Totally agree that we have to have an approach everyone is happy with and more importantly feel safe with. I'm just interested to see what other schools come up with and hope people can add their comments to this thread in the next few days with what is agreed in their schools.
     
  7. Corvuscorax20

    Corvuscorax20 Lead commenter

    in an ideal world, not in a pnademic world.

    you can't do this.

    You need a system of quarantining resources for 72 hours after you have prepared them, and then making them availableto students without touching them.

    We are going to quarantine them in a tray, then carry them into the classroom touching only the tray, and tip them out onto a central desk for students to come and collect one each
     
  8. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    A suggestion, but don't follow it through though as it will be TOO much work and can seriously jeopardise your sanity, is getting the parents/students to scan it to you and then commenting on the pdf file in red and then sending it back.

    The constant uploading and sending documents will take ages and ages and you'll receive documents entitled Scanno024748233893, which drives you absolutely :mad::mad::mad::mad:

    So, yes there is a solution, but don't try it.
     
  9. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    Honestly? Goodness if the risk inside your own bubble is as bad as that why on earth are we going back? I thought the most serious risk was the exposure of the teacher to 30+ not each child exposed to 1-2 teachers. Clearly gathering in work or books involves cross contamination pupil to pupil and that, therefore, needs 72 hours quarantine. How is pupils collecting for themselves going to be practical if the all go to one central area? It will take half a lesson to go one by one and maintain social distancing. The guidance stipulates that normal classroom equipment should be used and cleaned afterwards. If I want all mine to have counters they need putting out into pots in advance of the lesson. I could wear gloves to do this of course. That might solve the initial handing out issues. But if pupils collect things themselves, paper, glue, paint, whatever, and don’t touch anything anyone else will then go and touch (not going to happen), then they have to return it all at the end, how on earth will lessons get off the ground? Seriously, how is that going to work?
     
  10. Corvuscorax20

    Corvuscorax20 Lead commenter

    it isn't going to work like it has done in the past. You just have to rid your mind of any expectation that we are going back to anything like things used to be
     
  11. hhhh

    hhhh Star commenter

    I don't know of any high schools/colleges that don't do any written feedback (and up until recently, I met teachers from lots of different schools very recently-and the last Ofsted talked about written feedback-I remember feeling annoyed for a colleague who had spoken about something to a student, but hadn't written it down being told off for the fact that it 'wasn't recorded'-even though I'm sure that if this person said she'd said it, she must have said it.
    Is handling their books really more dangerous than all the other aspects of teaching, though? Especially being in rooms without windows/touching bannisters etc? If so, the post-its someone suggested, or getting them to do all wok on a computer (most schools I know of are loaning laptops to low-income students) seems to me the way forward. But I just don't understand why touching paper is such as issue-surely the virus died quickly on paper, while it's rife in a badly ventilated room packed with 35 others shouting, moving round, touching stuff...please tell me if I'm wrong, but everything I've read suggests this.
     
    Catgirl1964 and Sally006 like this.
  12. hhhh

    hhhh Star commenter

    In one place I worked, we always had work submitted on the VLE (with the option to scan and send) and it really wasn't a problem-it was actually quicker than trying to take sheets out of sticky plastic wallets! Plus it saved carrying piles of books, you never needed to worry about losing them, and all your marks could b saved with all their work on the network securely. I know it might depend on the school/area, and take a while at first, but long-term it's good for them and you.
     
    Sally006 and catbefriender like this.
  13. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    There are many, we read about them in TES articles and in various newspapers from time to time.
    But this is the primary board, the OP works in primary and I was talking predominantly about primary schools.
    Paper
    Examples: mail, newspaper
    The length of time varies. Some strains of coronavirus live for only a few minutes on paper, while others live for up to 5 days.
    Cardboard
    Examples: shipping boxes
    24 hours
    https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces
     
  14. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    It isn't, obviously.
    30 children all racing to a tipped out heap of papers is not sensible at any time, certainly not at the moment.
    A teacher walking round and dropping one sheet on each desk, is far safer in every possible way.
     
    Sally006 likes this.
  15. sooooexcited

    sooooexcited Established commenter

    If everyone cleans their hands before touching the books, then after they've finished, why would there still be any risk higher than the usual risk of catching germs from our beloved children?
     
  16. Corvuscorax20

    Corvuscorax20 Lead commenter

    because the teacher could be spreading it from one book to another
     
  17. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Children who have spent an hour or more in the same enclosed room will have spread the virus to each other already if they were going to.
     
    Catgirl1964 and Sally006 like this.
  18. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Thanks for that. I was thinking about it on an individual level, whereby a parent/student did it physically i.e. scanning it and then uploading it, but you're right, an integrated system whereby the student either works online, or does the uploading and downloading themselves, thereby creating a unique reference number, really could save the teacher's valuable time.:)
     
  19. Sally006

    Sally006 Lead commenter

    Can see this working with 1:1 laptop or tablets. Sadly, most of us don’t have this. Even if we did, I’m not sure it would work for KS1 or even lower KS2. Would just love it if we had them in 5&6. We have one ICT suite timetabled for x2 a week. We had a bank of 15 portable laptops which were only ever used 1:2 and most of those got loaned out during lockdown. Most that have returned are now broken. We could scan work and upload but only have one iPad per class. The method suggested would require the teacher to upload every scan. It’s not impossible and I think we can explore it but it will be time consuming. Think I prefer my post-it idea. I’ll put forward your suggestion though.
     
    catbefriender likes this.
  20. sooooexcited

    sooooexcited Established commenter

    That's irrelevant if all pupils clean their hands before and after handling the books.

    And that is still not higher than the normal risk of passing flu/sickness bugs round.
     

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