1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Losing "year organiser" role

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by tim98765, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. tim98765

    tim98765 New commenter

    I am at the top of UPS and and am also the head of a subject at my school for which I get the minimum TLR. I also have an extra amount of about £1300 (not a full TLR) for the additional role of a "Year Organiser" together with some extra free periods to do this role.

    I have been told that (with 9 working days notice) that this role together with those of the other Year Organisers (6 of us) will no longer exist. This is part of a reorganisation within the school. As a goodwill gesture the school has offered to continue to pay the extra amount for a few months.

    1. Am I not covered by safeguarding - in other words for 3 years? The school claims they have cleared the fact that this isn't necessary with HR.
    2. Can the school do this with such short notice and with no consultation?
    3. Can I refuse to teach the extra lessons from 1st Jan when the school wants to take away my extra free periods?

    Thanks, Tim
  2. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Are you working on STPCD conditions?

    If so safeguarding only applies if you were being paid a TLR. I'm not sure what you (or the school) meant by 'not a full TLR' but a role is either a TLR or it isn't. What does school's staffing structure say? What does the letter from the school say that gave you the role of Year Organiser? If neither say it's a TLR then the salary isn't safeguarded.

    No you can't refuse to teach the extra lessons, not unless you want to be dismissed for misconduct.
  3. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    If you are on the "minimum TLR" then that sounds like a TLR3, for which there is no safeguarding but which should be for a fixed period. But your role does not sound like that, so something is amiss. Rott Weiler's question is a key one - we can all read STPCD if that applies, but if not, then your query is hard to answer without knowing the details of your contract.

    I agree with Rott Weiler about the docunemts you need to refer to. Even if a payment is not safeguarded, then it still may be an entitlement under your contract; how useful this would be in practice is something you would need to get more axpert advice on that I can give.
  4. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    Q1) my initial view was this is a tlr3 as well. It should be for a fixed period though. Can you elaborate?

    2) in theory, yes I imagine. I am no expert though.

    3) this would seem a silly thing to do, sorry
  5. foxtail3

    foxtail3 Star commenter

    I'm not sure how you would justify refusing to teach the extra lessons, if you are not doing the role for which they were given.

    It looks as though your TLR is for your subject leader role. Therefore that's your TLR. The other seems to be some sort of discretionary payment, unless there is something in writing that describes it differently.

    To be honest, six of you are in the same position, the role is disappearing and you are going to continue to be paid that sum of money for a while without actually doing the job.

    I wouldn't rock the boat.
  6. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter


    Talk to your Union.

    But above all do NOT refuse to do the extra teaching. Since you generally must carry out any reasonable instructions of your employer, you would be putting yourself in a very difficult position by digging your heels in here.

    Best wishes

  7. tim98765

    tim98765 New commenter

    Thank you for your responses.

    I am at a non-academy, ordinary state school. I'm guessing that means I'm on STPCD?

    I am UPS3 and have a TLR2a for being the head of a subject. However my most "senior" role is as a "year organiser" (I've changed the job title a bit for privacy). I have had this position for a number of years and it attracts an extra payment as indicated above together with 2 extra free periods. This amount is not stated as a TLR but just as a monthly payment. As it's my most senior role it's the role that I'm generally regarded as within the school.

    The role has been eroded when the head created a further layer of year leadership about 18 months ago, at which point this role, which was regarded as a year head role became more of a year monitoring role.

    I am in touch with my union. They seem to be indicating that as the school is undergoing a reorganisation (including these changes) then the school needs to follow the agreed consultation procedure which they haven't done. I am being told by them that I should be fully protected for 3 years under safeguarding; but to be honest I'm not really convinced tha the union rep has listened to all the ins and outs of my situation. I did try to phone thei union helpline but I had to put the phone down after waiting for ages!

    I find it very hard to believe that they can tell me that within 9 working days my role will be taken away and my timetable changed to reflect the loss of free periods without any consultation with staff.
  8. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    I am not surprised really that the union rep is unsure, because it sounds quite weird to me. I was always under the assumption that you could only have one TLR unless one was a TLR 3 for a specified project and for a specified length of time? I may well be wrong though. I am not sure of the legal position but my reading is...

    1) Your TLR is for the head of a subject. Whatever you think you are 'known for' in the school is another issue. It is this role that I would assume you would have some leverage in, were they taking away this.

    2) The position you are talking about isn't a TLR, more of a discretionary payment, that I am assuming is not covered by the same requirements as it is not a TLR?. Whether a school doing this and not calling it a TLR is above board I really do not know.

    Someone with greater knowledge than me on things like this such as @TheoGriff @Middlemarch or @Rott Weiler may have better advice as to the question
  9. Godmeister

    Godmeister Occasional commenter

    I had a role at my previous school with a discretionary payment under the level of a TLR and without so much responsibility which I always assumed was revokable at any time. If it doesn't form part of your TLR itself then I am pretty sure you can't do anything about them taking it away from you. When I was HoD we had two staff in the team on discretionary payments for temporary projects which were revoked when the project ended. As far as I am aware it is all above board but in this case it seems the school should have explained the discretionary part to you in more detail so as to be courteous. Please correct me if I'm wrong @TheoGriff or others with more experience.
  10. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    I would agree with your view. Only TLRs and Leadership roles come with the 3 year protection.
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I can't really improve on the advice @DYNAMO67 and others have given. It looks like you are on STPCD employments conditions, and you have a TLR for being a HOD. STPCD only allows you to have one TLR (unless it's a TLR3 for time-limited temporary role) so whatever you had for the 'year organiser' role it shouldn't have been a TLR. It's irrelevant what other people considered you were 'regarded as'. (As an aside I'm surprised that 'year organiser' was considered to be a more senior role than HOD. Considered more senior by who?)

    As it seems the 'year organiser' role was neither a TLR nor a SLT role there is no salary safeguarding under STPCD. The school seems to me to have been pretty generous in what its been paying you, and the free periods, and I'm not surprised this generosity has hit the buffers, given the current financial climate.

    If I were you I'd be grateful for the extra few months salary they are paying you and accept the situation.
  12. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter


    @Rott Weiler has summed it up well.

    Not the advice you were hoping for, I know.

    But I would repeat what I said above:

    Best wishes

  13. tim98765

    tim98765 New commenter

    Thank you so much for all of your responses, what a great community this is. It is so appreciated. My union is currently taking it further given that the school has not consulted on the organisational change

    There is much soul searching going on for me, to believe that a role can be revoked so easily with a few days notice feels plain wrong. Is this the career i want now? I am an excellent teacher, having come out of the commercial world.

    To be honest this is a small part of what has been going on in the school. I may post separately on other matters as they are more subjective and, in my view, serious.

    Thank you again.
  14. DYNAMO67

    DYNAMO67 Lead commenter

    To be honest I think you are taking this a bit personally where you have no reason to do so. The school have made the call that the current system needs changing. To be honest, I would do the same if I were in charge. If I am paying you a TLR to run a department then I want this and your teaching to be a priority. I don't see how you can adequately do this, and what is seemingly either a pastoral or whole year data job as well.

    Secondly I think you need to fight battles you can win and are worth fighting. I am not sure this is one. As has been pointed out, it is unlikely the school are in the wrong.

    I agree with the excellent post from @Godmeister the school should have been more upfront with you, and probably should have let you know before (note they are paying you for a few months though and not expecting anything back) It is untidy, but it is not what I would call 'plain wrong' sorry.

Share This Page