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Lord Capulet - HELP! Dispute with my son's teacher...

Discussion in 'English' started by Lara mfl 05, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    The whole point about any question like this, is that 'any point made is valid IF one can present evidence to support the arguement from the text (or context).' Students are often told to use Point Evidence Explanation, to engage in explanation rather than right or wrong answers. So can your son 'prove' his explanation by <u>reference to the text</u>?
  2. sianna

    sianna New commenter

    if she refuses to marry paris then her father is telling her she won't get a dowry and she/they won't inherit any money at all so any future husband won't get a dowry/inherit juliet's wealth ...
    and 'i'll never acknowledge thee' sounds like he's also saying he'll claim she's illegitimate which isn't good news for mrs capulet either ... which is maybe why lurhmann left it out.
    what does the teacher say is the reason lurhmann left this bit out? does she know? did lurhmann tell her?
    i can hear an owl outside. lovely.
  3. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    Could Lurhmann be such an irrational pedant that he can't cope with double negatives?
    Sorry - flippant.
  4. anteater

    anteater New commenter

    Well, call me a cynic, but I think the most obvious explanation for missing out this line (and plenty of others) is that he is so busy having the actor playing Capulet slap Juliet about that we wouldn't hear it and we've got the point by then anyway.
  5. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    I think I'm right in saying that examiners for Literature will always credit interpretations that could be reasonable - whether it's the one they'd put forward themselves or not.
    Sometimes they even get students obviously repeating a teacher's notion that's off the mark but have to accept it.
  6. Well, from my understanding (based on Elizabethan context, although the story of R and J in the source story is probably more 15th century), Juliet (as the only surviving child of Lord C) would inherit money and additional property but the title and power would descend to the next male heir in the family ie Tybalt (as his father is old). This is why, I think, the death of Tybalt particularly resonates and why Lord C is so anxious to get Juliet to marry Paris. There must be another male heir or the title and family name dies.
    Whilst Juliet could inherit money and property, the ownership of this would pass to her husband on marriage.Paris is a good catch as he is the Prince's relative. He could not be Lord C though but his son could via Juliet.
    I am not sure I would have the stamina to argue with the teacher over this though, unless it was marked wrong...
  7. Yep - as an examiner I often get whole sets of answers that are clearly regurgitating a teacher's bias, things like the view that Curley's wife is purely a tart and everything that happens is her fault, for example. No matter my own view of write or wrong, I mark what see as all examiners should. The fly in the ointment here is that the same person who teaches the text then marks the CA. I had a similar issue with my daughter's teacher when she was taught The Crucible. What her teacher saw as clunky structure we (I?) saw as pragmatic layering of a high order.
  8. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    Great typo, figgins!
  9. manc

    manc New commenter

    I enjoyed the OP. 'Help'....as though it was a matter of national emergency. This is like working out how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
  10. manc

    manc New commenter

    Agreed, markuss. I'm getting conflicting messages about someone who talks of 'pragmatic layering', but can't spell 'right' right. Like a brilliant professor who can't tie his shoelaces, but can solve Fermatt's Theorum.
  11. Women could inherit but it generally went to distant male relatives over closer female ones. Any property owned by a woman would pass to their husbands on marriage. It's still different from not giving a dowry or any inheritance to the married couple.
  12. oh my!
  13. manc

    manc New commenter

    "Mum/Dad, my teacher says 'The Crucible' has a clunky structure. But I see it more in terms of pragmatic high-order layering, what do you think?"
    'I'm glad you mentioned that, dear....' etc., etc.

    Sounds pretty believable to me!
  14. I do apologise for the typo, was it late at night? It usually is! You're quite right to pull me up on that rubbish post, I can't recall the details of the crucible essay discussion and she didn't go back and say either 'clunky' or 'pragmatic', I can't remember the exact details at all tbh but was trying to express (very badly) some empathy with the English teacher as parent occasional conundrum of the OP. Since I am currently struggling to get my head round teaching AS language, which I really don't understand very well, I expect that's where the 'pragmatic' came from. It was word of the day! Do you wonder if I'm really an English teacher, Manc, or about the veracity of that particular anecdote? I can't prove either, of course, I was just wondering.
  15. Actually, Jane Austen was not a Victorian writer so that would be anachronistic...but you are right regarding the inheritance issues.
    It's worth remembering that inheritance laws and the rights of women do differ rather from era to era...
  16. manc

    manc New commenter

    The language of the anecdote sounded more suited to the high table at an Oxbridge college than a discussion between a parent and child over fishfingers and oven chips.
  17. It does - that's not the actual language used during the conversation (my daughter would just have said, 'Whaaaat??') and I can only assume it was straight after I was wrestling with the AS language content since it wasn't late at night.
  18. manc

    manc New commenter

    Oh, ok then . I enjoyed it though.
  19. Although, of course, you will not be suggesting either of these phrases to your son because the whole point of the CA is that it is your child's unassisted work, not your ideas channelled through him...
  20. thequillguy

    thequillguy New commenter

    Fantastic thread started here by Bentrollio.

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