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Lists of words suitable for Y1 phonics screening practice...

Discussion in 'Primary' started by giraffe77, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. I?m sure you?re right about the time issue.

    modgepodge wrote:

    "Lots of surprises actually, some of my very able readers did very badly in the test."

    Up to about the age of 7 or 8, using books designed to teach children to read, some children do very well, because they have good memories for whole word shapes and are good at guessing from pictures, context and first letters. If they find phonics difficult, bright children who are encouraged to use these strategies will use them instead of phonics, even when they?ve had daily phonics lessons. It works well at first, and then it falls apart, because they can?t read unknown words without all the clues they get from the school?s reading scheme books or books designed for young children. At around 8 years old, as it becomes clear they can?t cope, their self-esteem starts to sink very low, as I know from experience.

    I?ve come to support this Phonics Check strongly as then months go by, because I realise that it?s going to highlight those children who may be on the road to failure when they?re older, even if they appear to be reading well in Year 1.

    Hopefully it will persuade those on the fence that we need phonics first and fast for teaching word recognition. Until children can decode easily, we can develop other language skills and a love of reading through listening and talking.
     
  2. My message overlapped with Maizie's. Yes, they're only Year 1. Let's keep it simple at this stage. Decoding can be a game. Say the sounds, decode the word, get the answer! Children love it when it's well taught. Let them enjoy books that are read to them, without making them struggle to read what they can't read.
     
  3. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    We check phonics skills/knowledge each term (reception to Y3) as part of our assessment cycle and have used the free assessments provided on Phonics International. These include non word reading
    storping knotion wrickless spotchful drigner
    drecial phostle neightrap grateau chapeldrin
    scralms chiffusion pristation billage trasteful
    wallington blavoursome exhibitious clambford
    bruisefillious crewspringle thrillispauce palkly
    my most able reader in Y2 flew through them hardly pausing, other children sounded them out (silently in their heads) less confident out loud but a few children surprised me because they guessed wildly and replaced the non words with real words - so neightrap became neigbour and chiffusion became chiffon wrickless became wrinkles initially yet they read other non words perfectly well but it did highlight that they weren't reading what was on the page
     
  4. The atmosphere on this forum (especially where phonics is concerned it seems!) can be really unfriendly recently! You might find more help here giraffe : http://primaryresourcecentre.myfreeforum.org/about29497.html&sid=c83cf3093da10e2e65bddd0affc9c655
     
  5. Sorry don't know why the link doesn't work - hope you can cut and paste it!
     
  6. modgepodge

    modgepodge Established commenter

    Yes, I've found this. Even when I specifically say "they're not real words, just say them how they're written, don't try and make sense of them" some kids will sound them out then come up with a real word. "bim" becomes "bin" and so on.
     
  7. Maizie, what I meant about time was that we need to give more time to reading one to one. I was not using it as an excuse! I just wanted to say that I thought it was a reason. We look for reasons in the teaching method when the are so may other factors that can influence children's progress, such as the time issue. Well, I have never known Y1 able readers become strugglers in Y6. I agree that some children may be memorising words instead of memorising GPCs. However, these are frequently children with excellent visual memories who can work like this, and remember enough words to notice and use familiar words and letter patterns when reading new words. Let's give them their due.
     
  8. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I find it's the children who rush at the task.
    With SEN children we use a cursor (basically a credit card sized piece of card with a corner notch cut out ) which we move sound by sound or word by word to teach reading left to right and it definitely makes children look at the words more closely.
     
  9. Why is this surprising? I think you need to give these children their due as well.
     
  10. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    sorry thumbie
    perhaps I should have explain that when we went on to check their reading these same children were reading texts just as inaccurately and this was carried over into comprehension tests where they often substituted "replacement" words for the correct answer
     
  11. Msz, but saying neighbour for neightrap is hardly wild guessing, is it? Now I'm surprised. It doesn't seem to be the profile of a wild guesser or an inaccurate reader that the child can read some pretty complex new (non) words accurately and read some other new (non)words which are very similar to known words inaccurately because of that similarity. Clearly, with this problem, they need to use context more, realise their attempt at a word has not made sense in the context, and go back and read it using their good phonic knowledge. They have shown themselves to have phonic knowledge by reading many of the non words accurately. You did say they decoded many of the words accurately, didn't you. Hmmm, will have to look back at your other post. Apologies if I have not remembered it correctly.
     
  12. There it is.
     
  13. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    well I would argue that it is the child sees something that looks vaguely familiar and guesses ...he does this with real words too ... just as some children look at the inital letter and make a guess, a bit like playing I spy with my little eye something beginning with neigh ...
    unfortunately they are substituting words in text that would make sense in context but are completely wrong when it comes to the actual comprehension question.


     
  14. From your description the children see the first syllable, recognise or decode it, and then guess the word. With 'neighbour' how many other real words would fit the guess? I can think of neighing, neighs, neighbourhood, neighs - that's about it. I can't think of any context in which one of those words could be substituted meaningfully for neighbour. Hmm- maybe "Love your neighing", "The neighbourhood could be seen over the garden fence". Similarly, in fact more so, with 'chiffon'. I really cannot think of any other words that start 'chiff'. My IPad keeps stubbornly coming up with chiffon every time I attempt to put in 'chiff'. It's driving me a bit crazy. But do you get my point? There's something very weird going on here. The children can decode an initial syllable but apparently not decode the rest (or not bother to decode it), they can decode some nonsense words of equal difficulty. They substitute words when reading and in comprehension exercises, strangely finding different meanings that fit. Weird.
     
  15. In fact, I'm going to put my neck on the line and say that were the words in the list you quote real words, and a child read them correctly, would it matter if they used phonics or memory of whole words? If you know whole words such as gateau, flavoursome and exhibitions, you are going to know loads more simpler words and many complex words and you are well on your way.
     
  16. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    It matters when he reads a text such as
    The friends decided to stay at the nearby hostel and when asked where did the friends stay? he answers in a hotel or if he reads thumbie caught a big flat fish and is asked what was the fish like? he says big and fat. Which is what he was doing.
     
  17. So it was just one child. I'm very surprised that he knew neigh but not flat. Perhaps he knew that flatfish was all one word and concluded that the 'l' was a printing error.
     
  18. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    fortunately he didn't have that sentence
    it was a bad example of the type of reading behaviour he was presenting at the time
     
  19. He certainly needs to take more care. Maybe it's a personality thing, nothing to do with reading method at all.
     
  20. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    It was one child who particularly surprised me in this way. After talking to his mum I discovered they had actually been "learning" his reading books, (her words) because he did this all the time when asked to read aloud, so he was word perfect and had gone over and over the questions
     

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