# Linking math and scienc in yr6.

Discussion in 'Science' started by roxy7, Nov 5, 2011.

1. ### roxy7

Hi, I'm trying to make a resource box, as part of an assignment, that I could use to teach above lessons. I'm choosing 'reversible and irreversible changes' for yr 6 as a topic and have to integrate math in this too.
For the science part:
I'm thinking of having small pots with salt, sugar, cement, vinegar, bicarbonate of soda, lemon juice and washing powder, etc in my box which could be used to see the different changes that occur when mixed together.
Filter paper, sieves, etc to use when trying for filteration/evaporation. Will check with tutor if I can put a bunsen burner in there too!
Laminated pics showing permanent changes and asking chn to talk about what's happened.
Add in some materials that burn completely(wood, coal,oil), chn can talk about why and how when materials are burned heat and light energy are produced.
As I have to link it to maths, I'm struggling for ideas. I'd appreciate ideas that will help me make this a success. I'm sure there's lots of you out threre with tons of experience and ideas!!!
Thanks,
Student teacher, Roxy

2. ### blazerStar commenter

Hi Roxy, I am wondering why they do reversible and irreversible change in KS2 when it is done again in KS3. However for numeracy I suppose you can do lots of measuring. Weigh salts, measure volumes, measure temperatures, measure time. 10g of wood 2g of ash how much of the wood got burned? What % of the wood got burned?

10g of wood How hot did it make 100 ml of water?

100g of water. 10g of sugar How heavy will the sugar solution be?

1g of bicarb, 5ml of lemon juice in a film pot. bang on the lid how high will the top go?

3. ### blazerStar commenter

Wwe call it physical and chemical change in KS3 with the main way of telling being the ease that the change can be reversed. Physical changes can be reversed easily chemical changes cannot.(well they cannot until KS4)!

4. ### FGTO

That's what I meant. The work on physical and chemical change draws
on and is underpinned by the knowledge and understanding of reversible and irreversible
changes they should have developed in KS2 - in line with the (current)
programme of study. (I say should have, because I know it might not be the case.)
Here's the relevant section...
2. Pupils should be taught:
<ol class="alphalist">[*]to describe changes that occur when materials are mixed [for example, adding salt to water][*]to describe changes that occur when materials [for example, water, clay, dough] are heated or cooled[*]about reversible changes, including dissolving, melting, boiling, condensing, freezing and evaporating[*]that
non-reversible changes [for example, vinegar reacting with bicarbonate
of soda, plaster of Paris with water] result in the formation of new
materials that may be useful[*]that burning materials [for
example, wood, wax, natural gas] results in the formation of new
materials and that this change is not usually reversible.</ol>Apologies for hijacking the original question, but I have a particular thing about progression.
Will go away now ;-)

5. ### physics_suits_you

Totally agree
In KS2 a solid stuff (sugar) disappears when stirred in a liquid stuff (water). [phenomenon]
In KS3 the molecules of sugar are dispersed amongst the molecules of water. [particulate description]
From a maths point of view:
KS2: how much sugar can be added to 100ml of water before it stops dissolving? What factors might affect this?
KS3: how much sugar can be added to 100ml of water before it becomes saturated and how does this depend on temperature? Control other factors eg stirring.
Lets keep it real for our colleagues in the Primary Phase, please.

6. ### roxy7

Thanks for all the contributions, my mind has eventually began working!!!
As a student I don't know how I can get the chn to work out how much water can be heated using 2g of wood. Would this be suitable in yr6 and how could I approach this in a safe way? I'll be adding the health n safety bit in my assignment but how would I do it in the confinements of the classroom?
Also, are there any primary teachers who can tell me any 'fun' activities to do with volume and capacity please.

The support on here is incredible, keep it going!

Thanxs,

7. ### blazerStar commenter

They must teach a different national curriculum in our part of Birmingham as even our top set kids know nothing about that stuff when they arrive in year 7!

In fact our default position now days is to assume they have never done any science before and that is not far off as their prior knowledge of anything is virtually zero.

8. ### FGTO

In that case Blazer, you really do have my heartfelt sympathy.(No sarcasm)
I know this is a sad phenomenon which is too often the case and hope that primary science is given its proper place and support in the curriculum review.
I have taught in several middle schools as well as primary, so have taught both curricula and know that good teaching of the KS2 stuff certainly helps for later.
Chin up!

9. ### physics_suits_you

It is very easy to believe that Primary Education offers little in the way of Science, and also easy to knock the levels which the kids are supposed to have reached. Simply asking the kids does very little to dispell these thoughts.
However, in Y7 & Y8 I always used to briefly re-group my pupils into "feeder primary" areas at the start of each topic. I would give them a concise idea (2mins max) of what they might have met and ask them to discuss their experiences at Primary school. After 5 minutes we would have the whole class sharing their comments.
Perhaps I was lucky in only having 6 to 8 main contributory schools each year: usually we had a rich enthusiastic description of what class A had done with teacher X and what class B had done with teacher Y, etc. As the stories came out, you could see the pupils bursting with pride and happy memories of when they were the "top dogs". Often someone would suddenly remind their group that they had done something similar; if they had done different things or reached different conclusions, we could discuss that.
In total it might take 30mins out of a lesson, but we could then move forward with firmer foundations and a deeper understanding of what we were about to do, and why. Sorry for those of you who have every child from a different school, but even my "odd ones" were able to share a few experiences.
As I posted earlier, progression is very important and it is really worth persuing in a logical manner.

10. ### FGTO

physics_suits_you

Yes... I'd agree.

If you ask them "Have you done work on......?" you'll get a blank look at best.
If you say "You'll probably remember doing something like...." they'll want to share what they know.

When they're new to the school, they'll be expecting to learn new stuff, and won't want to say they already know it in case they look stupid.

It's a difficult one from all sides.

Hey - this started as a maths question. ;-)

11. ### blazerStar commenter

Well I started a forces topic with my set 2 year 7s on Monday (most supposedly have high level 4s from KS2). 1 girl was able to tell me that a force was a push. The rest were not familiar with the idea that a force is a push or a pull! A couple did recall that Gravity had something to do with forces and one girl blurted out 'Friction' but couldn't elaborate on how the word related to forces or even give me an example of friction.

12. ### Goat2New commenter

Firstly I commiserate with Roxy7 for having been led into an assignment that is almost illogical in that of all the primary science topics to link to maths this is one of the hardest ( lucky it wasn't Earth and beyond!).
Okay so you have a range of voumes, mass changes. but for that you need a reasonable balance. Try measurig the mass of bicarbonate (sodium hydrogen carbonate) and masses of vingar and then mixing on the balance - well in a pot on the balance - and measuring the mass changes. This gives scope for graphs etc. So if you keep the vinegar volume and concentration the same and use 2 grams and then 6 grams of bicarb can they predict from the graph what the masses at the end will be for 3 and 5 grams. In fact no need for measuring the end mass, just time how long the reactions take.
As for heating water with wood! have your tutors not told you to buy Be Safe? or shown you the CLEAPSS materials. If they haven't then try and get copies from your library and rasie that in feedback/evaluations.
Sadly after working for 20+ years with primary science the variation is vast as to what and how well it is taught. I'm ashaned to admit Gove's only saving grace is he is reinstating science as a subject to train for in primary. It will be fun to see how coordinated the new curriculum is between KS2 and KS3. The last revision of KS3 was totally independent of KS2 so for the past four years you could get old fashioned QCA modules in KS2 or the school had abandoned everything in favour of topics and literacy!
And Blazer is correct, when faced with Y7 for the first time do explore their experiences - or are you the school who on open evenings went for the flashy bangs and flames to inspire their application only then to begin Y7 with "draw the bunsen flames and this is how to light it"?