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Liberté, égalité, fraternité: Catherine Deneuve on seduction

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Vince_Ulam, Jan 10, 2018.

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Are Catherine & her co-authors correct?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    60.0%
  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Catherine Deneuve says men should be 'free to hit on' women

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    'The revered French actor Catherine Deneuve has hit out at a new “puritanism” sparked by sexual harassment scandals, declaring that men should be “free to hit on” women.

    Deneuve was one of about 100 female French writers, performers and academics who wrote an open letter deploring the wave of “denunciations” that has followed claims that the Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein raped and sexually assaulted women over decades.

    They claimed the “witch-hunt” that followed threatens sexual freedom.

    “Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack-handedly, is not – nor is men being gentlemanly a macho attack,” said the letter published in the newspaper Le Monde.

    “Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,” said the letter, which was also signed by Catherine Millet, author of the explicit 2002 bestseller The Sexual Life of Catherine M.


    [...]

    The letter attacked feminist social media campaigns like #MeToo and its French equivalent, #BalanceTonPorc (Call out your pig), for unleashing this “puritanical ... wave of purification”.

    [...]

    “I don’t think it is the right method to change things, it is excessive,” she said last year, referring to the #MeToo hashtag. “After ‘calling out your pig’ what are we going to have, ‘call our your whore’?”

    “Instead of helping women this frenzy to send these (male chauvinist) ‘pigs’ to the abattoir actually helps the enemies of sexual liberty – religious extremists and the worst sort of reactionaries,” the collective of women who signed the letter said.

    “As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality.”

    They insisted that women were “sufficiently aware that the sexual urge is by its nature wild and aggressive. But we are also clear-eyed enough not to confuse an awkward attempt to pick someone up with a sexual attack.”
    '
    TheGuardian.com, 9th January 2018.

    Very sensible comments. You can find the open letter here.
     
  2. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Roll up one & all! Cast your ballot in my lovely poll!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. fraisier

    fraisier Occasional commenter

    Only about 30-40% of the letter in your link, because of the Le Monde paywall.

    The whole letter is here.

    Some sensible comments from Deneuve in there but also some unacceptable ones that tend to exonerate sexual perverts and predators, such as this one: "Elle peut veiller à ce que son salaire soit égal à celui d’un homme, mais ne pas se sentir traumatisée à jamais par un frotteur dans le métro, même si cela est considéré comme un délit. Elle peut même l’envisager comme l’expression d’une grande misère sexuelle, voire comme un non-événement."

    Sorry but unlike Deneuve, I have no sympathy whatsoever for "frotteurs" (those disgusting pervs who rub their genitals against female passengers in public transport) and would never ever feel sorry for them whatever "grande misère sexuelle" they happen to be in! Sod them, what they do is 100% illegal and that's all that matters to me. I don't give a flying **** at the state of the sexual life of frotteurs, these people deserve to be locked up. What next, condoning rape on the ground that, rapists have a poor sexual life and, well, the general public should make a little effort and put themselves in their shoes?

    Really absolutely shocking from Deneuve and the other 99 women who signed this letter, downright irresponsible even. Would she say the same and show such compassion to these deranged men if her daughter had to take the métro or the bus frequently and was the regular victim of a frotteur? I very much doubt it.

    And how dare she talk of "un non-événement" when a sexual predator harasses you in the public transport? You can tell Deneuve never has to take a crowded bus or the underground everyday for up to 2 or 3 hours per day!

    I've heard her recently (on the French media) talk of Weinstein and let's just say that I wasn't impressed... (she knew him a bit and maybe it's her way to stick up for him, I don't know).
     
  4. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    The Golden Globes were distasteful in the extreme... how many of those folks there co-operated ... all those starlets garbed in black, how many of them played along and encouraged it because it got them careers... how many of those Hollywood hunks looked the other way when they knew what was going on...

    Corey Feldman always springs to mind... tip of the iceberg... but all we'll see is the tip.

    Yes Mr Weinstein, I'd love to watch you shower, oh yes I am so very talented.

    No Harvey, don't you worry I didn't see nuthin...
     
    corgie11 and Laphroig like this.
  5. elledriver

    elledriver Lead commenter

    upload_2018-1-10_19-47-54.png
    upload_2018-1-10_19-48-49.png
     
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    And Rose McGowan took a settlement deal off Weinstein in return for her silence...

    Not exactly a shining light there either... whole sordid swamp should be torched.
     
  7. Weald56

    Weald56 Established commenter


    Is that Trump quote?
     
  8. Calpurnia99

    Calpurnia99 Star commenter

    I was groped on a train in Italy. Not by a frotteur but by a thief who distracted me with the grope while his accomplice nicked my purse. :mad:
     
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    It's good that other prominent people are beginning to call this craze out for what it is:

    Liam Neeson says harassment allegations have become 'a witch-hunt'

    [​IMG]

    'Liam Neeson has described the wave of sexual misconduct allegations that have swept the entertainment industry as “a bit of a witch-hunt” and appeared to dismiss breast groping as “childhood stuff” in an interview on Irish television.

    Speaking on The Late Late Show on RTE, the Hollywood A-lister said “there’s some people, famous people, being suddenly accused of touching some girl’s knee, or something, and suddenly they’re being dropped from their program, or something”.


    [​IMG]

    The French actor Catherine Deneuve drew sharp criticism this week when she also used the term “witch-hunt” to describe the chain of events since allegations of serial sexual assault were made against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein last year.'
    TheGuardian.com, 13th January 2018.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Star commenter

    Looking at the links in the article Dustin Hoffman has been accused of doing a lot more than touching a girl's knee.
     
  11. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Accusations alone should not ruin a woman's or a man's career.
     
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Unfortunately claims and tweets are now rock solid ... but as...
    demonstrates, you have to be the right sort of victim.
     
  13. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Star commenter

    I was merely pointing out that some of the allegations were rather more serious than Liam Neeson 's reference to knee touching.
     
  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The problem is that the aggregate of everyone "just saying" is the illegitimate perception of guilt. As Neeson reports in the case of Garrison Keillor, even a single unsubstantiated complaint, however ludicrous, can ruin a woman's or a man's career.
     
  15. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Apparently some women can enjoy rape. Must be true, a woman has said it...:eek:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/french-agony-aunt-brigitte-lahaie-11845315

    A French actress and agony aunt has sparked outrage by suggesting some women “enjoy” being raped.

    Brigitte Lahaie, 62, was discussing the #MeToo movement on Wednesday with feminist activist Caroline De Haas when she made the shocking suggestion that some rape victims can enjoy the ordeal they experience.
     
  16. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The fantasy has long been reported:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. Orkrider2

    Orkrider2 Star commenter

    It's a common theme in fantasies, yes, but it would be incorrect to assume that women who enjoy the fantasy would enjoy the actual scenario in real life.
     
  18. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Not incorrect. Not substantiated.
     
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    It's often been said that people will enjoy their abuse... it's a common idea that teenage boys will enjoy the attentions of older women for example...

    It's wrong... but not uncommon.
     
    Vince_Ulam likes this.
  20. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Not a widespread phenomenon.

    Apparently.

    Certainly not much a defence in court these days
     

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