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Leaving International school with 3 month probationary period

Discussion in 'Teaching overseas' started by Mr. Numb, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. yellowsubmarine1

    yellowsubmarine1 New commenter

    You can't live anywhere in HK cheaply. Rents outside the main "tourist" area as you call it are still expensive. Expats usually want to eat western food in western restaurants NOT chinese food. Sometimes they may want to eat Chinese food but chinese food in China and HK is not the same as a chinese takeaway in the UK! It's all broths and noodles Chinese food is along with dark coloured meat which looks awful and probably tastes like rubber. However some chinese food I ate in Taiwan was quite nice such as beef noodles and the odd chicken curry. But there's only so much of it you can take. You can't eat this stuff every day you need a change. Also no one in China eats sandwiches except of course in HK you can get them. In Taiwan you can get sandwiches at the 7 11 but china doesn't have 7 11s and no one seels sandwiches in china that I have seen. so consequently, all expats have to eat main dishes at lunch time which they don't usually do back home.
     
  2. SecondPlace

    SecondPlace Occasional commenter

    People need to be careful when talking about contracts and the difference between reimbursement - you pay; and benefits - flights, shipping etc.

    Local law may mean you can give xx number of days notice, but you can kiss goodbye to the benefits if you do this.
     
  3. Jason_Bourne_

    Jason_Bourne_ Occasional commenter

    Sorry fella but you're wrong... the schools which I have worked at have cleared stated that during the probationary period of 1 academic term, BOTH parties have the right to terminate the contract of employment. If either party does terminate the contract of employment during the probationary period then there are costs associated with doing so.
     
  4. Jason_Bourne_

    Jason_Bourne_ Occasional commenter

    Don't get your knickers in a twist...! Everyone apart from you can see that he wasn't referring to you...! Let's see if you have the decency to apologise...
     
    sabrinakat and dumbbells66 like this.
  5. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Established commenter

    im not holding my breath ;)
     
  6. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Occasional commenter

    We are in the realm of semantics. Probation can mean different things according to context. Clearly, for instance, in the context of Spanish employment law probation applies equally to the employer and the employee. In the context of English criminal law probation means something totally different, as in 'Alice Nutter was found guilty of witchcraft and given six months probation.' In passing 'infer' does not mean 'suggest' or 'imply'.
     
  7. yellowsubmarine1

    yellowsubmarine1 New commenter

    So? Probationary period STILL means it is the employer who is observing YOU the teacher and NOT the other way round. It doesn't mean "Oh I wonder if I like this school or not" EVEN if you don't like the school, decide to quite and lose a hell of a lot of money for being a silly ***** cos the school lumbered you with a small amount of teaching another subject at KS3 or even GCSE and ahhhh diddums....you couldn't cope with that little bit of work. Ahhhh what a shame.

    International schools are private schools which make profits, big big big profits, millions of dollars and if they need a teacher to cover a subject then that is what they will do I am afraid. My school currently has a local teacher or TA I think teaching a subject which is not her main subject for example. The reason is because you need a visa to get a native teacher and if you don't have one, you can't just fo to Academics supply agency for a while and hire one until you get a full time one.

    Manwaring, it is plainly obvious we are talking about probationary periods of CONTRACTS not prison parole to use an Americanism. Many words in the English language are homonyms or whatever the technical word is.
     
  8. yellowsubmarine1

    yellowsubmarine1 New commenter

    MR NUMB is always messing about looking for a job anyway. He was looking for a job as a NET in HK 6 months ago and he couldn't get in because his subject isn't English and he has no TEFL. This is the only English ESL job in HK that pays your rent for you and consequently the only viable ESL job in HK to earn just enough money to live in that expensive Ex-British greedy place.
     
  9. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Occasional commenter

    'Manwaring, it is plainly obvious we are talking about probationary periods of CONTRACTS not prison parole to use an Americanism.'

    As Mike Tribe has clearly demonstrated, in some contexts probation applies equally to the employee and the employer. And as I referred to probation in English criminal law I don't know why you have dragged in the American parole system which is a totally different thing, though, come to think of it, you are beginning to remind me of the Yankee preacher who wrote in the margin of his sermon 'Argument weak: shout like hell.'
     
  10. yellowsubmarine1

    yellowsubmarine1 New commenter

    By nature of the meaning of the word probation, it can NOT mean the employee has the right to probe the school to see if he likes it. Even if Mike Tribe's contract states in Spanish that he has the right to terminate the contract within the probationary period, the probationary period still only means that the school are assessing Mike Tribe's performance. I brought in parole, because you brought in another meaning of the word probation which has nothing (nada as MT would like to say) to do with the argument. THe ONLY thing an emplyoee can do if he doesn't like his job is to give NOTICE. This is quite different to a school being able to assess the teacher's performance and behaviour to see if they want to keep him on. Thanks.
     
  11. stopwatch

    stopwatch Occasional commenter

    So if 'a probationary period can NOT be mutual, but if it is'..... - seems to say that a contract CAN be mutual but would be stupid....so you are indicating that a contract can in fact be mutual - correct?
     
  12. yellowsubmarine1

    yellowsubmarine1 New commenter

    IDK as I don't normally think about such things in detail but I would assume a contract is mutual in the fact that the employee agrees to do a b and c and the employer agrees to pay the employee for doing a b and c and will give conditions that he expects the employee to abide by. Also as I said notice periods are often either way so mutual. But not everything in a contract can be mutual including the probationary period.
     
  13. makhnovite

    makhnovite New commenter

    Another incarnation of the dreaded one? This time going completely OTT. I think he/she must be related to 'The Donald'! So thin skinned and so convinced of his/her own rectitude that no other opinion gets through the miasma.
     
  14. stressedhead

    stressedhead New commenter

    Musikteach- where are you in China?
     
    Alldone likes this.
  15. february31st

    february31st Occasional commenter

    Chinese Labour Law;

    Article 37. A laborer may dissolve his labor contract by giving 30 days notice in writing to his Unit. During his probation period, a laborer may dissolve his labor contract at any time by informing his Unit.

    I may have said 20 working days notice, but that was my understanding which is close enough to prove the point in question.
     
  16. yellowsubmarine1

    yellowsubmarine1 New commenter

    That's for laborers not teachers. I have just been through this in the ROC. Labour standards law there says you only need to give 10 days notice if you have worked less than 12 months for an employer but the Labour office told the employer that the teacher's act applies for teachers and labour law is for laborers. So I guess it's just for laborers in China not teachers. Otherwise your contract would actually state that you can leave but they don't say this.

    Anyway,this makovite is a right rude AZZ. All I have said is that a probationary period by definition can only be for your employer not the employee. Who the hell do some people on here think they are? God or something?
     
  17. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Occasional commenter

    Interesting that our jolly submariner associates 'probation' with 'probing'.
     
  18. february31st

    february31st Occasional commenter

    Any employment contract in the PRC is underwritten by Chinese Labour Law. As in the UK you can not sign away your legal rights under law.

    What your given contract says and what is the law can differ, especially when it gives the school an appartment advantage.

    Here in Shanghai the local government does enforce the protection to all workers under Chinese Labour, including foreign teachers.

    If you are ignorant of your own rights under the law of the land you are working, its not my fault. If an employer fools people into beleving they have signed themselves into indebted servitude for the rest of their lives, again not my fault.
     
  19. stopwatch

    stopwatch Occasional commenter

    .... but you have agreed in an earlier posting that it can be mutual - albeit (to quote you) "stupid"
     
  20. frangipani123

    frangipani123 Established commenter

    [. All I have said is that a probationary period by definition can only be for your employer not the employee. Who the hell do some people on here think they are? God or something?[/QUOTE]

    This is ACAS's guidance on Probation:

    Probation
    Many employment contracts include a probationary period of employment at the start, usually for three or six months. This is so the employer can see whether the new recruit is up to the job in practice, and so the new employee can decide to leave if they are unhappy in the role or with the organisation. Notice required by either side during this period can be very short - sometimes only a week.
     

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