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KS1 Playtime grrrr

Discussion in 'Primary' started by rrabbit, May 27, 2011.

  1. Was wondering what people felt about the following:
    I work in a primary school and teach in KS2. Our school day consists of a break at 10:30 (15mins), lunch at 12:00 and home at 3:15. KS1 children currently get a break at 2:15 for 15mins, which i dont really have an issue with as I imagine many of these children could probably do with a break at this time. However in KS2 we do not have this break and continue to the end of the day. Whilst on the whole, I feel that it is more beneficial for children to continue the afternoon without a break I do feel that it is a little unfair that colleagues in KS1 get 15mins off more than me everyday. I also feel that there are occasions when it would be nice to take children out for 15 mins once in a while. It is also really annoying when doing PE and having to clear off the playground/field to make way for KS1 playtime!
    Once a week they will have to go on duty, but that still leaves 4 days a week when KS1 teachers will get, in total, 1 hour more than me off. Over a term or even a year this is a considerable amount of time not teaching compared to us in KS2. I know that many will argue that it is not time off as they are getting stuff ready etc but that is exactly the same for any year group.
    To be honest I'm not overly bothered but do feel that, in KS2, we should be offered extra PPA time/management time to compensate. I pointed this out to collegues in KS1 and it started as a joke but did get more heated many of us threatened that we should enquire with our various unions as to our course of action.
    Do I have a point? Has this been an issue for anyone else? Thoughts please....

  2. I thought ks1 legally had a shorter day than ks2.

    In our school they get 15 mins longer at dinner and an afternoon break, and no-one complains.
    And in our school breaks are hardly 15 mins breaks, maybe get chance to grab a drink/go to bathroom etc but even in the mornings i don't sit down in the staffroom for the whole 15 mins.
    So your colleagues are probably getting an extra hours preparation time, but in ks2, I can get the pupils to set things up for me, i'm sure it is different in ks1.

    Miss H
  3. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Your post certainly sounds as if you are very bothered indeed!
    I'd say it is swings and roundabouts.

    KS1 get a playtime, but then the staff take much longer to hand over children at the end of the day. Upper KS2 more or less open the door and let them go. KS1 have to hand each child over individually to a recognised adult and therefore get cornered to talk much more often. More or less balances it out.

    KS1 staff have to take their classes to the hall at the start of lunchtime. KS2 teachers, just let the children out on to the playground. Probably adds another 5 mins a day to a KS1 workload.

    I honestly think it would be dreadfully petty to make any such fuss and would cause horrible divisions among your staff.
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Over the years, I've worked in KS2 and KS1. It kind of balances out. You all work as a team and I am sure your colleagues don't sit in the staffroom during their break. It's a part of teaching.
  5. I guess you've made some good points. Not convinced though.
    I'm not overly bothered about the extra 15 mins off every day but the overall culmulative time.
    Also think that its strange that in yrR they basically play all afternoon and then have to stop to go out to play!
    This was a conversation that got quite heated in the pub after school tonight and, as expected, most KS2 teacheres were on my side and most KS1 weren't. Still it does kind of annoy me when KS1 teachers go on about their excessive prep time when I see them leave an hour eatrlier than me and other yr6 teachers when marking boring practice SATs!
  6. greta444

    greta444 New commenter

    Are none of the KS1 staff on duty during the afternoon play? That's not a break in my opinion.
    Our KS2 also have a short break in the afternoon. we find it very beneficial to their concentration for them to have a break. Helps the afternoon go a bit quicker too. However, if they have P.E. I find they don't need the break.
  7. KS1 DOES take infinately more prep time in terms of setting up classroom, tidying/organising classroom, creating resources, creating exciting learning activities etc.Your children can do a lot more for themselves than KS1 children can. This probably adds an extra 2 hours a week to my workload, but do I moan? No. Why? Because the key stages are completely different and not comparable. Workload is similar but allocated in different ways.
    If its any consolation I spend most of my 'playtime' breaks changing wet pants, patching up cuts and grazes etc. If your that jealous ask for a change of year group?
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    KS1 and reception teachers tend to be more involved with parents after school. I don't think reception "play" in the afternoon and have you seen all the stuff a reception teacher has to fill in. Being a KS1 teacher is very different to KS2. Different resources, reduced attention span of children, very demanding children and not very independent.
    Go and try KS1 / reception and see what you think.
  9. lindsay84

    lindsay84 New commenter

    We have an afternoon play but we do break duty, we actually do morning and afternoon break times as the children are younger and need more adults around.
  10. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    However you sound very bothered indeed and also entirely clueless about what goes on in reception classes.

    Which sounds like you started the argument and so must be very bothered indeed to cause an argument between your staff. Why on earth should staff feel they have to take sides?

    But then our KS2 teachers lest and were at the pub by 4pm yesterday (unusual, but it was the last day of term and we have a training day on the first one back). The reception teacher arrived much later because she was making and setting up the new role play area ready for next term. I pointed out if she moved to year 6 to be with me the children could make their own role play area and save her the time.
  11. I'm sure that this is true. I am a supply teacher in 3 schools, the infant school does not have a afternoon break, but they do finish earlier than the affiliated junior school next door. When I mentioned this at the primary school where I work I was told that this happens beacuse of the legal requirements for the different Key stages.....To be honest, some KS1 teachers at the primary school where I work may not have the whole class for 15 mins, but they usually have an intervention group..... As a supply teacher, I know that once the end of day bell goes that the KS2 children disappear & I can settle down to do the marking, however with KS1 it can be as long as 15 mins before the last KS1 child is collected. So, is all swings and roundabouts.
  12. ^ And another half an hour on top of that to tidy up everything my children missed at tidy up time, and set up my 'choosing' activities. I know not all schools do this but when children are not working with an adult in my classroom, instead of working on the same type of work independantly sitting down, they access a range of activities that are play-based but have other learning objectives attached that relate back to something we have been doing in numeracy/lit/topic etc. They choose when they do each activity, but are expected to complete each task.
    Planning/setting up these 3/4 extra activities each day takes me at least half an hour every evening after school.
  13. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Of course it does. Yet how much time do you spend marking?
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    It's probably the same amount. Both stages are challenging. Now instead of squabbling amongst ourselves, surely we should be discussing those secondary teachers with their cover lessons, free periods, streamed classes, fairly standard schemes of work to follow, only having to teach one subject (just don't mention GCSEs, coursework and moody teenagers).

  15. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    LOL. Having done both, the workload might be less in secondary (and in fact is, if you teach a subject without course work) but nothing at all makes up for moody teens! I'd rather leave teaching than go back to secondary.
  16. at our school, ks1 and foundation open their doors at 8.45, some ks2 teachers aren't even in then ! ks2 doors open at 9.05, we then all have the same playtimes and dinner times so we in fact have more contact time with the children. it is swings and roundabouts as my nan used to say !
  17. sadika

    sadika New commenter

    RE: Also think that its strange that in yrR they basically play all afternoon and then have to stop to go out to play!

    Oh dear - some deeper understanding of Foundadtion Stage needed!!! "Learning to play, playing to learn".
    I work in FS and we have NO break from the children at all ...
  18. ditwee

    ditwee New commenter

    To the OP; you need to spend a full day in each of the other key stages because your understanding of what they are doing and the challenges each faces is incomplete. KS1 and Foundation teachers are nearly always earlier into school and much later out than KS2 teachers.
  19. You didnt read my quote that you quited properly then, because I also
    said that workload equals out but is allocated in different ways. I was
    just pointing out one of the ways that our workload differs to yours, as
    it was KS1 workload that he has little knowledge of.

  20. cally1980

    cally1980 Established commenter

    Im KS2 but it would never occur to me to quibble 15 mins a day that is going to be spent working in some form or another! The break is for the kids, not the adults!

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