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Keeping discretionary points

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by msc83rmd, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. If one LA gives me discretionary points, can a new employer take them away? I qualified recently and my first LA gave me two discretionary points. I got a new contract with a new employer a month ago, but they are now saying that they may not pay me the discretionary points awarded by my previous employer. Can they do that?

    I think if they were not willing to keep me on the same points they should have said that at interview. Also, the teachers' pay and conditions implies that discretionary points awarded for previous experience are permanent even when moving to a new post (paragraph 18.3.1).

    Advice gratefully appreciated.
     
  2. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    They cannot take them away and effectively pay you less next year than you earned last.....
     
  3. I wouldn't think so either, but my pay slip shows M1 and the school don't seem to be budging. Should I be pushing the school or the LA to make the correction? The LA say the school have told them to pay me M1, and the school say they couldn't give me the discretionary points without approval from the governers, which aren't meeting until October. I've shown them my old contract with the discretionary points awarded but they say that discretionary points don't automatically carry over from one LA to the next, which is just rubbish as far as I can see. So should I keep pushing the school or go to the LA again?
     
  4. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    You union should address and sort this out for you.
    How many years have you been teaching?
     
  5. I qualified in 2009, did a year on agency supply, then two terms on a LA contract where i got my 2 discretionary points to put me on M3. So I should move to M4 in September having done over 26 weeks this year.
     
  6. I started on M3 in Jan 2006 and I am now on UPS1. It has however always said my pay point on my slip, and therefore no-one has known they were 'discretionary' points. I don't understand why your slip says MPS1? Was it perhaps a separate recruitment and retention award?
     
  7. No, it was just two discretionary points for service other than teaching. I did some teaching on agency supply and more teaching while I did my postgrad studies, and they gave me these two points in recognition.
     
  8. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    Ahhh OK. Agency supply does not have to be recognised as service warranting progression I'm afraid - therefore you probably haven't, in two terms, gained 26 weeks of valid experience last year.
     
  9. I've done well over 26 weeks. For this academic year I've had two terms with one LA and a month with another, so I've worked about 2 and half terms out of 3 for an LA. Anyhow, they are not disputing that. It's the discretionary points that they say they do not automatically carry over from my previous LA.
     
  10. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    I, too, am confused how they know that they were discretionary points.
    The fact that they were originally awarded as such is academic. The pay you are entitled to is based on the pay you last earnt, nothing more nothing less.
    So, if your last school paid you on M3, then regardless of how that came about, if you have completed the 26 weeks service in this academic year in an LA school, and you will also be teaching in an LA school in September then you are entitled to M4. Who told your new LA that they were discretionary points? Have they seen your pay records from your old school yet?
     
  11. When they paid me wrong on my first payslip I was asked for evidence, so showed my old contract which detailed the discretionary points. New LA have seen pay details from old LA anyhow, not that that should make any difference.
    I called up the Dept of Ed and they confirm my new LA can't take points off me, so will just have to push the matter. Unfortunately, there is no rep for my union in this school so have to wait for someone from regional office to get back to me.
    Thanks for all the advice and will keep you posted.
     
  12. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Future schools do not need to knowhow your M scale pay was originally calculated.
    They simply need to know which pay point your previous LA school was paying you.
    If you are employed (even on paid sick leave or paid holiday) by an LA for 26+ weeks in a school year, you automatically go up the payscale int he next school year in which you are LA employed.
    If you don't manage the 26 week qualifier, the new school carries on paying you on the same pay point you earned at the previous school in the previous school year.
    So, if you transferred mid-school year on M3, the new school carries on paying you M3 and then you get M4 in September if your combined LA service in this school year was 26 weeks plus.
    Contact HR at the LA and your Union.
    If you have been underpaid in this school year, get your arrears sorted A.S.A.P.
     
  13. Been in touch with union and written to HT. Hope it will all be sorted for before the start of the new academic year. Union confirms that if I have my old contract detailing my discretionary points, there should not be an issue because discretionary points are permanent and transferable in maintained schools. Will post updates.
     

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