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John McDonnell signals Labour will support a second referendum

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46373787

    I think Corbyn and McDonnell's softly, softly approach has been masterful. Slowly, patiently, waiting their moment, they've endured the hysterical hectoring and barbs of the Remainers on their own backbenchers, and they're moving into a position where Labour support for a second referendum, yet still retaining much of their Leave support, will be inevitable.
    Once they do, expect a huge Labour boost in the polls.
     
  2. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    They are not a double act. They and their teams are not as one. .McDonnnell is the day to day leader while Corbyn just does PMQs . I just don't understand Corbyn's abdication
     
    oldsomeman and border_walker like this.
  3. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    Labour's leadership have had a tightrope to walk, given the huge number of Remainer MPs they have, together with 40% of their supporters who voted Leave. Following through the Brexit vote while keeping the possibility of remaining in the EU in the national interest alive has been a fantastic feat. Of course, it is still dependent on May's deal crashing and burning the week after next, and failing to secure another Election.
     
  4. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    The numbers are not there, neither is the all important timing. Labour will need to bring this as an amendment very soon and it will get voted down due to all the chaos.

    As has often been the case in the very important votes, it will be voted down due to splits in Labour. Essentially, while 5 to 10 Tories might (might) rebel, around 20-30 Labour MPs will either abstain or vote no.
     
  5. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    I doubt indecision and contradictory messages are part of a clever strategy.
     
  6. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Nice avatar using 'Photo 51' of B-form DNA @Photo51
     
    border_walker likes this.
  7. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    I prefer Kissinger's phrase "constructive ambiguity."
     
  8. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    The double act is part of it. Corbyn is widely seen as an anti-EU. He needs to be 'forced' by his party to put forward a second referendum with reluctance because he believes in democracy within his own party over his own beliefs.
    This time we need to ask the question properly. First past the post.

    Remainers
    No dealers. (WTO)
    Dealers. (May, Canada, Norway etc)

    Where is the majority peeps?
     
  9. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter


    I have the solution. New deal based on Norway arrangement until and if we can get a Canada deal - the Canada deal will be dependent on when technology can remove any border in NI and Ireland.

    This will thrill remainers as they will believe the technology will never happen and they can fight for U turns on Canada before it becomes a reality, Brexiteers will accept it as we know we are staying in the EU for a 2 year implementation anyhow - and have to get their backsides into gear to get the technology done.

    Such an arrangement will fly through the HoC and HoL.
     
  10. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    Norway is not in the Customs Union, has a hard border with the EU and accepts the four freedoms to be part of the single market.
    I can't see that being acceptable to those who would vote down the current proposal.
     
  11. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Ah true - I was listening to Kinnock, he must have been describing a Norway + and yes, it is very unlikely Norway clear would be accepted by the HoC or Norway + by the EU.

    Back to the drawing board......
     
  12. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    I think the EEA have already said that they would not welcome an application from a country that intends to leave again within a couple of years.

    Many politicians are promoting loopy ideas at present. ;)
     
  13. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    How about we stay out of EFTA and the Eurozone, refrain from the Schenghen agreement and stay in the EEA but instigate greater controls over FOM?

    In other words.

    What we already had.

    We already had Norway ++ for crying out loud.
     
    MAGAorMIGA and chelsea2 like this.
  14. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Surely you cannot have forgotten already that Cameron asked the EU for the UK to be allowed to put an emergency brake on immigration as recently as 2016? His request was vetoed by Mutti Merkel. All he got was permission for a one-off temporary reduction in migrants’ entitlement to benefits.
     
    border_walker likes this.
  15. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    I have often wondered why McDonald is always the one to announce policy changes. He seems like the real leader of the Labour Party.
    I have still not heard a plausible solution to the leaving of the EU, from the party, which is why I think they are devoid of a solution and instead crave power. On the other hand, one could claim they do not want to show their solution til in power. This would be like a poker hand, only in the mind and dealt hand of the player.
     
    towncryer and border_walker like this.
  16. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    Actually we have the power within the rules to modify our policies. DC went about it in completely the wrong way and got the inevitable answer as a result. It is not up to other countries to try and solve our own domestic issues nor is it up to other countries to provide easy outs. Something the brexiteers have a real problem getting their head around.
     
  17. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    We don’t use our current restrictions on FOM. We, e.g., Theresa May, voluntarily allow more migrants from the EU with more freedoms than she has to.
    Surely you must think - why would someone who doesn’t use all the migrant brakes seemingly seek more FOM controls?
     
    towncryer likes this.
  18. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Wasn't it because the so-called emergency brake was nothing of the kind, but simply permission to restrict benefits to EU immigrants for a limited period? Cameron was seeking a proper restriction on numbers of the type that other countries such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA operate - but the EU refused.

    Show us some evidence that Theresa May could tomorrow cut the number of EU immigrants by half. Given her views on immigration, don't you think she would have done that years ago if it were possible?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  19. SirPurrAlot

    SirPurrAlot Established commenter

    As FG says, all the EU allows when it talks of an "emergency brake" is to restrict benefits for new EU immigrants for a maximum of four years. It does NOT involve restricting the number of immigrants.

    The details are here:

    https://fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-emergency-brake/
     
  20. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    40%

    Are you sure?

    I'd thought it was much closer to 1 in 3- with a lot of irregular voters backing Brexit in what are normally considered safe labour areas.

    To me it looks like the most impressive piece of fence sitting ever- Not a good thing IMO

    They seem to be working though- with many people only listening to the messages they like and ignoring those they don't.
    IMO if you don't know where a party stands you can't call them out on it later, and if they stand on both sides of an argument then they are not to be trusted.
     

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