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It's not just about the results

Discussion in 'Education news' started by blazer, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

  2. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    The BBC are currently stressing that "OFSTED will give much greater emphasis to behaviour" in their final grading

    Specifically the area where their past judgements have been consistently unreliable.

    Consistently extremely unreliable.

    Is this latest initiative another joke?

    At the expense of teachers.

    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  3. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    The article backs up the BBC view as well
    The new framework will also see an increased emphasis on behaviour and attitudes in a revised category, with schools able to be rated as having outstanding behaviour if pupils “behave with consistently high respect for others”. In particular it notes that schools in “challenging circumstances” need to take action to create a “positive learning environment” to be awarded outstanding status.

    I've long disliked the OFSTED practice of deciding on the final grade before they set foot in the school so I suppose I should welcome this. Maybe we'll get
    1. SLT forced out of their ivory towers to address behaviour much more proactively.
    2. HoDs having to take the more difficult classes.
    3. More robust behaviour policies that actually address poor behaviour.
    4. A reduction in class sizes for the challenging classes.:rolleyes:
    Most likely we'll get
    1. None of the above as SLT realise it's too much effort.
    2. Another stick to beat teachers with,
      "Your class wasn't working in silence for the full hour" vs "Your questioning was too brief and not thought-provoking enough"
    3. An INCREASE in exclusions and off-rolling as the awkward ones can't just be stuck in isolation all day every day. And more proof from the paperwork to back up these decisions.
  4. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    Looking back, the above seems very defensive indeed.

    Patently "give them a chance" is a more balanced reaction.

    But the organisation in question does not have much of a track record in the field ... which will now be its "specialist topic" so to speak.
  5. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Star commenter

    The problem with this is you will be deemed in need of support if you enter poor behaviour info into SIMs too frequently.

    What behaviour problem? Our MIS shows very little in the way of poor behaviour!

    Cue:- double secret probation for Delta

  6. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    Let's wait until we see the text of her speech, rather than the media distillation of it.
  7. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

  8. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

  9. briancant

    briancant Occasional commenter

    When pupils are well behaved and well motivated they get good results so league tables in many ways are an indirect measure of behavior.
    sebedina likes this.
  10. diddydave

    diddydave Lead commenter

    Unfortunately we often get inspectors who take the same, or a similar, view that the grade percentage is an absolute indicator.

    Having taught for my whole career in a 'secondary modern'* we were always, imo, unduly penalised by the very heavy emphasis that was put on examination grades. Every report we have had has made a comparison of our results to the national average, and guess what...we were below it. What has been surprising is how the inspectors didn't give any weight to the 'fact' that our intake was somewhat lower than the national average. (Even 60-75% of our local grammar school's intake is made up from pupils who failed the 11 plus*)

    *Note I've used some ancient terminology as I think it makes it clearer for older readers.
  11. briancant

    briancant Occasional commenter

    Isn't the progress 8 score supposed to take that into account?
  12. bessiesmith

    bessiesmith Occasional commenter

    Sure - there is undoubtedly truth in that. BUT - are the pupils well-behaved and well motivated due to the school's behaviour policy or because of their upbringing? It is likely to be a some kind of combination of the two but Ofsted fail to take this into account, meaning that schools in disadvantaged areas are more likely to get a poor Ofsted grade. Anyone who argues that the behaviour of pupils is purely down to school policy needs to explain why in the same school you get children who are always beautifully behaved and others who are constantly disrupting lessons.
  13. thekillers1

    thekillers1 Lead commenter

    ...teachers having even more work with higher levels of scapegoating and ruined careers.
    sanriku, agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  14. thekillers1

    thekillers1 Lead commenter

    Not always. You can have delightful children and are less than academically able.
    violingirl and Catgirl1964 like this.
  15. grumbleweed

    grumbleweed Star commenter

    The new buzz phrase appears to be " cultural capital"
    There also seems to be a stronger emphasis on early literacy and numeracy especially in early years andKS1.
    thekillers1 and agathamorse like this.
  16. briancant

    briancant Occasional commenter

    Yes but it would be wrong to accept worse behavior from students who came from a disadvantaged background. In fact I would like to see better behavior from them. That is how we will achieve the same outcomes for these students as those who go to Eton and Harrow... etc
    Catgirl1964 likes this.
  17. diddydave

    diddydave Lead commenter

    *Supposed* is the key word but you only have to look at how the top grades have been given a greater weighting and English and maths being double weighted (the two subjects that have the strongest link to 11-plus scores) to realise it is stacked at the top end. There have been a number of 'value-added' attempts and I'm not sure any of them have been successful - I do recall being quite excited when the first one was introduced and we went from D's in the PANDA reports to A's, unfortunately a number of Grammar schools went the other way and so it was decided that system was wrong.
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  18. bessiesmith

    bessiesmith Occasional commenter

    No-one could disagree with this sentiment but as words alone it is a hope, not a strategy. It is a simple fact that the behaviour of the students in my top sets is much better than that of my bottom sets - not because I am a better teacher on those days but because the job is much easier.

    As you rightly imply, a responsible society cannot simply shrug its shoulders and accept that disadvantaged students will behave badly, but we will not improve the problem by laying the blame squarely at the door of the school (or a particular teacher) as Ofsted (and some Headteachers) are wont to do. All this does is to deter teachers from accepting jobs at 'tough' schools - exacerbating the already difficult circumstances.

    Good leadership would look at providing tools to assist - directing funding and resources at the problem, sharing good practice, providing CPD, for example.
  19. Kamit

    Kamit New commenter

    I like to use a football analogy.

    I can expect Cambridge United to work as hard as Manchester City. That is fair, we want everyone to be the best they can be.

    But if you give me XI people who hate football, don't see the point of it and get trounced 49-0 every time they play their motivation will never be as high.

    Let them find an activity they do enjoy and become brilliant at that instead.

    I know so many adults who hated school but have thrived outside of it. The way we deliver secondary school is not the only way people can learn about the world. We need to be more flexible.
    phlogiston and ajrowing like this.
  20. thekillers1

    thekillers1 Lead commenter

    Bring back 11+ testing system. Totally unethical but easier to.m cater for society.

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