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Israel bars U.S. politicians

Discussion in 'Personal' started by cuddlesB4, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    You could have just posted a link to this guy's opinion from the Bezos-owned WAPO. Or given us a summary. But no.
  2. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    I am correcting a factual error in your post where you cite 'Israeli' forces being involved in the 'Balad al-Shaykh massacre' (which was in retaliation for the killing of 39 Jews during the 'Haifa Oil Refinery massacre' the day before) when Israeli forces did not exist.

    The State of Israel did not come into being until some five months after both these events.

    As for posting a link to the Electronic Intifada, and the supposed massacre at the Jenin Refugee Camp, check all sources. The Electronic Intifada is hardly a reliable news source.

    Subsequent investigations and reports by the United Nations, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Time magazine, and the BBC all concluded there was no massacre of civilians, (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jenin)

    Human Rights Watch completed its report on Jenin in early May, stating "there was no massacre," but accusing the IDF of war crimes, and Amnesty International's report concluded "No matter whose figures one accepts, "there was no massacre." Amnesty's report specifically observed that "after the IDF temporarily withdrew from Jenin refugee camp on April 17, UNRWA set up teams to use the census lists to account for all the Palestinians (some 14,000) believed to be resident of the camp on April 3, 2002. Within five weeks all but one of the residents was accounted for." A BBC report later noted, "Palestinian authorities made unsubstantiated claims of a wide-scale massacre," and a reporter for The Observer opined that what happened in Jenin was not a massacre.

    Personally, I would consider Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch to be far nore reliable and trughful than Electronic Intifada.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    George_Randle, burajda and lanokia like this.
  3. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    Are they not? They're certainly doing this...
    The Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and the Hamas de facto administration in the Gaza Strip continued their crackdowns on freedom of expression and peaceful assembly. Palestinian forces in the West Bank and Gaza used arbitrary arrests and detention against people criticizing the authorities to which they reported. Widespread torture and other illtreatment of detainees remained common and were committed with impunity under both authorities. Security forces in the West Bank used excessive force while conducting arrests and dispersing peaceful protests. The Palestinian authorities based in Ramallah continued to impose punitive measures against people in Gaza that exacerbated the dire humanitarian crisis resulting from Israel’s 11-year illegal blockade. Women in both the West Bank and Gaza faced discrimination and violence. Courts in Gaza continued to hand down death sentences. Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) people were subjected to arbitrary arrest and ill-treatment.
  4. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    And you can bet your bottom dollar that had Jeremy Corbyn said this the Trump fan club would have been all over this like white on rice. We would have several pages of thread by now detailing Corbyn's anti-semitism.

    In Trump's case however not a single condemnation of his anti-semitic remarks from the people who claim to be so concerned by the rise of this scourge.
  5. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    And I am asking if you dispute the fact that Israeli forces are responsible for massacres against Palestinians.
  6. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    The only thing I am disputing is the factual error you made in your post and correcting it for you. Earlier you posted this...

    ... so that is what I was doing.
  7. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Thats the same Bibi whose being investigated through an independent judicial system for alleged corruption? What court is being used in the Palestinian Authority to investigate the corrupt Hamas and Al Fatah leaders and president of Palestine?
  8. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    The page on the Human Rights abuses in the Palestinian Territory by the Palestinian Authority was quite an illuminating read too.
  9. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    Do you find the human rights abuses of the Israeli's illuminating also?
  10. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Im not denying they take place, the cases and allegations are well documented by Israeli human rights groups like BTSelem. But the Palestinian abuses on other Palestinians never seem to raise any eyebrows. What Palestinian Human Rights groups that document abuses by Hamas and Al Fatah are allowed to operate in Gaza and the Palestinian Territories?
  11. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    It's not clear that I have been corrected. Sure you have evidenced different sources but that in itself is not proof. Citing the BBC used to be something.Not any more.

    HRW is not without its critics either.


    Nor Amnesty International.


    Your failure to answer whether you think Israel is responsible for any massacres at all is also telling.
  12. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    At last you agree with me that the Israeli forces are guilty of human rights abuses.

    We have progress.
  13. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    If you say so. :rolleyes:

    I have chosen not to respond to that request on the basis that it includes emotive language, your deliberate choice of a word to influence or to elicit emotion. specifically the word "massacre".

    In any event, this subject has been done so many times on this forum, all too often with the thread being locked due to posters (such as yoirself, I notice) repeatedly going against the terms and conditions of the site.

    So, I shall pass on that one, but may still comment of any factual inaccuracies.
  14. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    I never said they hadnt carried out abuses, have you read any.of my posts? But you have not progressed and not agreed that Palestinian officials, militants and security forces are guilty of serious abuses against Palestinians and that the corrupt Palestinian Authority denies rights and criticism of its regime and leadership.
  15. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    I have not agreed because I am not sure whether it is true or not. What you have said is interesting and I will read further. I hate all oppression regardless of whether it is the Israelis or Palestinians themselves that commit it.
  16. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    A massacre is a massacre. It is not my choice of words. It is what has actually been reported as I have linked.

    Telling the truth is against terms and conditions?
  17. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    You dont know that Hamas is an oppressive organisation? Really? Yes do some further reading.
    artboyusa likes this.
  18. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    The A.N.C. were considered terrorists, particularly by the extreme right.

    I will choose my readings carefully.
  19. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    I condemn human rights abuses on either side, including Palestinian factions persecuting each other and Israel's use of death squads and blatantly giving its armed forces free rein to kill civilians.
  20. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    As bad as all this is, it pales into insignificance when compared to the actions of Israeli forces. It is hardly comparing like with like.

    The US "hands down" death sentences and LGBT citizens are treated poorly in the US as well. You wouldn't compare that with the butchery of the IDF.

    The IDF are killing Palestinians indiscriminately, and have done for decades. There is nothing the Palestinian authorities do to compare with that.

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