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Israel bars U.S. politicians

Discussion in 'Personal' started by cuddlesB4, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

  2. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    700 or so Palestinians including women and children killed in the Fatah v Hamas power struggle of 2006 - 2009. A few hundred murdered since then as the plotting and mistrust goes on, summary executions of political rivals and 'collaborators' is commonplace in Gaza. Recently Hamas attempted to assassinate a senior PA leader .
  3. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    The IDF have been butchering Palestinians for quite a while now.

  4. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Good that an Israeli newspapers is able to report on the genuine issues of corruption and shortcomings of the Israeli state, its Prime Minister and its defence forces. I guess thats because it is a democracy with a free press. Which Palestinian news organisations should I look at to read about the corruption, anti semitism, lack of accountabilty of security and judicial systems and journalist criticism of the Palestinian Authority and The Palestinian President?
    George_Randle and artboyusa like this.
  5. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    Not sure, but I do know that the Daily Mail writes about one of the first massacres of the Palestinian people. The Israel Defence Forces seem to be a blood thirsty animals by all accounts.

  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    That says they died as result of fighting. It isn't describing a massacre. You just choose to see a massacre for very obvious reasons.
  7. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

  8. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    Or this?


    You surely don't dispute Israeli forces massacres of Palestinian people do you? These cases are just the tip of the ice-berg.
  9. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Bad things happen in war. Were the RAF blood thirsty animals when they bombed Dresden? Or is there a wider context that needs to be considered. Are Hamas Blood thirsty animals when they send suicide bombers onto buses and send rockets and mortars against civilians?
  10. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Israel didnt exist when this massacre happened. There was no such thing as Israeli forces at that time. There were non state unregulated militias on both sides.
    George_Randle, xmal and nomad like this.
  11. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

  12. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    The State of Israel did not exist then. It was still the British Mandate of Palestine. Israel, as a State, was formed the following May.
    burajda likes this.
  13. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

  14. xmal

    xmal Established commenter

    You're wasting your time using reason and historic evidence against someone who has a toxic bias.
  15. NoseyMatronType

    NoseyMatronType Star commenter

    A mate of mine keeps recommending Avi Shlaim's The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World as an outstanding book on the history of this conflict. I haven't got around to it yet but there's a review here that also places Shlaim's perspective in a wider context.


    Just putting this out there for anyone who might be interested.
  16. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Terrorist organisations who deliberately place civilians in the front line and encourage them to break down a border fence so terrorists can get through undercover caused many of the deaths. Many of those dead were indeed members of two islamo fascist organisations. Sadly civilians and those genuinely helping medics were killed too. But Hamas is a death cult and a few Palestinian deaths is certainly a price worth paying for the propaganda war.
  17. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    Of course I have a bias. Who the hell wants to see innocent folk suffer? It is "toxic" to rail against the murder of innocent men, women and children?

    Maybe in your world.
  18. cuddlesB4

    cuddlesB4 New commenter

    Netanyahu is more than happy to help out on that score.
  19. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    I was disgusted by Trump's lashing out at "Disloyal Jews" who refuse to vote for him. In doing so he is coming uncomfortably close to invoking age-old anti-Semitic tropes about Jews as "the enemy within." There is an interesting article here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...557d10-c428-11e9-b72f-b31dfaa77212_story.html
    which, because it is behind a paywall, is worth quoting in full.

    Trump, frustrated by unpopularity with Jews, thrusts Israel into his culture war

    President Trump decided long ago that it would be smart politics for him to yoke his administration to Israel and to try to brand the Democratic Party as anti-Semitic.

    He set about executing a pro-Israel checklist: moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing the Golan Heights as part of sovereign Israel, and taking a hard line against Iran. And he promoted himself as the greatest president — a deity even — for Jewish people.

    Yet Trump has become flummoxed that Jewish Americans are not in turn lining up to support his reelection, according to people familiar with his thinking, and he has lashed out in predictable fashion.

    “If you vote for a Democrat, you’re very, very disloyal to Israel and to the Jewish people,” Trump said Wednesday on the South Lawn of the White House. He was amplifying a statement he made in the Oval Office a day earlier: “I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.”

    Trump’s use of the word “disloyalty” drew immediate criticism from Jewish groups, whose leaders said it echoed anti-Semitic tropes about where American Jews’ loyalty lies. The president insisted his comments were not anti-Semitic.

    Regardless, this turn in the president’s rhetoric about Jews magnifies his transactional approach to politics and his miscalculation that his hawkish interpretation of support for Israel should automatically translate into electoral support from Jewish Americans.

    It also reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of the motivations of many Jews, who are not a monolithic voting bloc but rather prioritize a wide range of issues — not only Israel, but also education, the economy and the environment, as well as civility and morality.

    “He is reflecting a concept of Jewish Americans as single-issue voters around Israel, which we’re not; that we’re uniformly hawkish on these issues, which we’re not,” said Jeremy Ben-Ami, president of J Street, a liberal pro-Israel advocacy group. “In reality, what matters most to us are the exact values that the president is spending his term trashing. We care about equality and justice, and we embrace the notion that this is a nation of immigrants and opportunity for all.”

    Looking to his 2020 reelection bid, Trump is thrusting Israel into the culture wars he has waged as president. He is trying to make support for Israel a litmus test — along with immigration and guns — and calling Democrats anti-Semitic to fire up his base.

    Daniel Shapiro, who served as U.S. ambassador to Israel under President Barack Obama, said Trump’s expectation that Jewish people vote for him because of his record on Israel is “breathtakingly cynical.”

    “In his typical buffoonish way, he thinks that by [pushing] out these instructions, essentially, to American Jews to get in line and become his supporters he’s going to be successful,” Shapiro said. “It’s all shaped by his narcissism. It’s all shaped by his transactional nature. It’s all shaped by his insatiable need for praise and confirmation of his greatness and appreciation for the gifts he’s bestowed on whoever it is he’s courting. And it’s not going to fly with this community.”

    Trump’s transactional expectations for Jewish voting patterns reflect how he views other voting blocs. He routinely defends himself against charges that he is racist by citing the relatively low unemployment rate for blacks on his watch, as well as the criminal justice legislation he signed last year, as if those are the only issues of concern to black voters.

    Trump has claimed a “Jexodus” movement of Jews from historically backing Democrats to Republicans. But polling shows this may be more fantasy than reality.

    In the 2016 election, 71 percent of Jewish voters cast ballots for Hillary Clinton and 23 percent for Trump, according to exit polling. Gallup tracking poll data in 2018 showed that just 26 percent of Jewish Americans approved of Trump’s performance as president while 71 percent disapproved, making Jews the least likely of any of the religious groups studied to support Trump.

    Trump has been told over and over again that he is “the most pro-Israel president ever,” according to a former senior administration official, delivering on a wish list that includes recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel — but the official said Trump is angry that he has not received more plaudits from Jewish Americans. Trump contrasts his unpopularity with Jews to the overwhelming support he enjoys from evangelical Christians.

    This official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak candidly about the president’s mind-set, argued that Trump’s rhetoric of late is “a manifestation of frustration of not getting the recognition and the praise and the support that he feels like he deserves as a result of what he’s done.”

    Trump placed an early bet on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and they forged a close alliance, but Netanyahu faces a difficult reelection bid next month, and a loss would be devastating to Trump. Furthermore, Trump’s push for a Middle East peace deal has stalled, and the Palestinians have rejected the U.S. proposal.

    Still, Trump tweeted a quote early Wednesday from Wayne Allyn Root, a noted conspiracy theorist and conservative radio host in Nevada, who praised Trump on Newsmax and lamented that a majority of Jews vote for Democrats.
    “President Trump is the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world, not just America … He’s like the King of Israel. They love him like he is the second coming of God,” Trump quoted Root as saying.

    Jews do not believe in a second coming.

    Trump has used statements from Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) and Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) criticizing Israel and its treatment of Palestinians to label them “anti-Semites.” And he has called them “the face of the Democratic Party.”

    The Trump campaign’s chief operating officer, Michael Glassner, issued a strongly worded statement Wednesday accusing Democrats of supporting those who want “to wipe Israel from the map.”

    “As a Jew myself, I strongly believe that President Trump is right to highlight that there is only one party — the Democrats — excusing and permitting such anti-Jewish venom to be spewed so freely,” Glassner said. “In stark contrast, there is no bigger ally to the Jewish community at home and around the world than President Trump.”

    At Trump’s urging, the Israeli government last week blocked the two congresswomen from visiting the country, citing their support for a boycott movement against Israel. The Israelis then relented in response to a request from Tlaib to visit her grandmother, who lives in the occupied West Bank, but the congresswoman ultimately decided not to make the trip because she would have been required by Israel to pledge not to promote boycotts.

    Democratic leaders have publicly supported the congresswomen, even as they have sought to distance the party from some of their sentiments. Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said at this spring’s American Israel Public Affairs Committee that his party supported Israel and that it was “absolutely vital” to continue doing so.

    “Those who seek to use Israel as a means of scoring political points do a disservice to both Israel and the United States,” Schumer said, in a veiled reference to Trump. “Our politics may be more polarized than ever, but it is incumbent upon all of us who care about the U.S.-Israel relationship to keep it bipartisan.”

    After Trump’s “disloyalty” comments this week, Schumer said in a statement Wednesday: “When President Trump uses a trope that has been used against the Jewish people for centuries with dire consequences, he is encouraging — wittingly or unwittingly — anti-Semites throughout the country and the world.”
    On the campaign trail, Democratic candidates also denounced Trump’s comments.

    “Come on, man. That’s like a dog whistle. ‘Loyalty.’ Come on,” former vice president Joe Biden told a crowd in Newton, Iowa.

    Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey shared his understanding of Jewish values. “There’s an idea in Judaism about kindness and decency and mercy,” he told reporters in Altoona, Iowa. He added, “One of the greatest Jewish ideals is to welcome the stranger. One of the great Jewish writings comes from Micah. That is, you know, ‘Do justice. And love mercy.’ These ideals are not being evidenced by the president of the United States.”

    Chelsea Janes and David Weigel in Iowa and Emily Guskin in Washington contributed to this report.
  20. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    So Bill Maher (not my cup of tea but he's a smart man) calls BDS and the Squad what it is and what they are...
    It's a bull**** purity test. BDS is a bull**** purity test by people who want to appear woke but actually slept through history class. It's predicated on this notion, I think, that the Jews in Israel are mostly white, the Palestinians are browner, so they must be innocent and correct, and the Jews must be wrong. As if the occupation came right out of the blue, that this completely peaceful people found themselves occupied. Forget about the intifadas and the suicide bombings and the rockets and how many wars...

    ...and for that, perhaps not surprisingly, Rashida Tlaib wants him boycotted...

    Rashida Tlaib


    Maybe folks should boycott his show.

    I am tired of folks discrediting a form of speech that is centered on equality and freedom. This is exactly how they tried to discredit & stop the boycott to stand up against the apartheid in S. Africa. It didn't work then and it won't now.

    ...which gives Maher the chance to say:
    Some people have one move only: boycott. Cancel. Make-go-away. But here’s the thing, the house voted 318 to 17 to condemn the #BDS movement, including 93% of Dems. Does Tlaib want to boycott 93% of her own party? pic.twitter.com/0QrPQmwwiw

    — Bill Maher (@billmaher) August 21, 2019

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