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Is this reasonable?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Professor Dumbledore, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Professor Dumbledore

    Professor Dumbledore New commenter

    Hello all and Happy 2011!
    For various reasons, my year group partner was off school all last term and may be for most of this term too. Her class was covered by 4 or 5 differnet supply teachers over this period, which was difficult for both me and her children due to lack of consistency. However, by the end of the term we had a general re-jig of staff, and a new (to the school) member of staff was moved in to teach her class every day. This teacher will be in there this term as well, so is it reasonable for me to expect us to split the planning?
    If it were me and my usual partner, we would split the Maths and Literacy between us, as well as all the other little bits and pieces that are quite time-consuming for one person, eg weekly news letter, spellings, homework setting, etc. I found it a struggle to get these all done on my own last term, and they were done at the expense of other tasks.
    Really I am dreading another term of planning all by myself - it's a bit demoralizing. The new teacher lives about 35 miles away so is not keen to stay that late after school, which makes it difficult to share ideas, but do you think it would be fair to go through the Medium Term Plan with them and split the workload? Thanks all.
  2. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

    It would be entirely unreasonable for you to go on doing it all. *** is she paid for. I feel quite cross on your behalf!!
  3. Of course, they're not a supply teacher - they're a salaried teacher paid by the school to be a teacher, which includes planning. I'd have a chat with them and ask them if they'd rather plan the maths or the english and if they have any 'favourite' subjects they'd prefer to plan. That way you're not asking them 'if' they want to plan, you're assuming they will. If they're worth their salt they would prefer to be involved in planning anyway. I personally don't like teaching from other people's plans as much as my own so they might enjoy their work more anyway if they have decent input.
  4. lilachardy

    lilachardy Star commenter

    Is the other teacher paid as supply or on a contract?

    If it's supply, she can expect to turn up daily and the lessons be planned for her.
    If she has a contract then she can expect to be planning.

    Or at least that's how it works in my place!
  5. Professor Dumbledore

    Professor Dumbledore New commenter

    Thank you for these comments! I am silly for leaving so much work for the last couple of days of the hols, but I just didnt realise how much there was to get done. I have started planning the Literacy, but will ask the other teacher if they can continue it.
  6. SleighBelle

    SleighBelle Occasional commenter

    I feel your pain- had to do the same when my colleague was off sick this time last year.
    I did end up doing planning for both classes, organising Parents' Evenings, letters, trips, homework etc, for the two terms she was off. It nearly killed me and I spent the summer term getting colds, coughs and ear infections.
    Is this new teacher paid a salary? Or supply? If supply, is it a long-term supply contract? If she is salaried or on long-term, it is MORE THAN reasonable that she should plan. She is, after all, a qualified teacher.
  7. Professor Dumbledore

    Professor Dumbledore New commenter

    They were initially paid as supply but after the shuffle round they are now salaried, Actually, I hadn't thought of it like that. Thanks!
  8. lilachardy

    lilachardy Star commenter

    Off-thread I know, but I find it interesting that primary teachers think it's too much to have to plan every subject for the week.
    In secondary we plan all our lessons and always have done.

    I am always interested in all the different jobs that are labelled "teacher".
  9. Firstly if they were teaching that class at the end of term, weren't they prepared to at least do planning for first week back over the holiday-that's what other teachers are expected to do. Then, surely you have PPA time? Is it possible that you can talk to HT have some PPA time together in school to get the ball rolling-or at least you could maybe have a slightly longer break during other teacher's PPA time in school.
    I think the old adage 'where there's a will there's a way' has to come into play here. If Ofsted came in and praised your year group's organisation and planning-the other teacher would be first in line to pick up some of the credit wouldn't they-therefore it's time they stepped up and took some of the responsibility as part of their job description-plus if they do well it will help them settle in and give them some brownie points with SLT.
  10. This is totally incorrect- no teacher is expected to work over the holidays and can not be asked to unless they are on capabilities and struggling with workload thus getting "directed" tasks outside of directed time to support them in keeping on top of things.
    I NEVER work over the holidays anymore and my school attendance and effeciency is far better for taking a full well deserved break. I plan for the first week of a new term during the 2nd last week of the previous term, double check all books are up to date during last week then go on my holiday.
    The teacher, if s/he was on a contract PRIOR to the end of term, should have completed the plans before the end of the term. If s/he was only on supply and didnt know they were coming back were not obliged to. Most would but dont have to.
    However I have to agree with majority that you should now be splitting the planning- dont do it all- no one will ever thank you for being a martyr.
    start the term as you mean to go on!
  11. Not ALL primary teachers! It depends on the set up, some schools with parallel classes share planning, some don't. Those of us with one form entry do all our own planning!
  12. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

    If there is one class for each year group, the teacher does it all. If there are two or three classes in an age group it is only sensible to share out the planning and all the children in the age group should get the same curriculum.( with appropriate differentiation etc etc etc) It isn't laziness, it's appropriate team work.
  13. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

  14. lilachardy

    lilachardy Star commenter

    Oh I wasn't saying it's lazy, I was just interested that it's something you'd never hear in my staffroom!
    I think it's possible in some subjects where the classes are taught in mixed ability classes though... PSHE for example.
    Not so strange as I first thought maybe.
  15. I'm primary and my colleagues and I all plan for every subject - wouldn't think of doing otherwise. [​IMG]
    I do agree that you shouldn't be planning for another teacher - not only is it unfair re workload, but you might not know the children in that class and so would not be planning according to need.
    Personally, I would hate teaching to someone elses's plan, but she must have thought all her Christmases had come at once - not staying after school and not having to work at home or even think about what she needs to do next! IMO it's perfectly reasonable for you to expect her to plan for her class. Do you not get PPA time together?

  16. Lily I find it strange even tho we do this. I changed from sec where I planned everything to primary where we split and Ifind it disconcerting at times. Also one teacher nearly always seems to do 70% or more but hey ho such is life. It has its pros/cons
  17. I meant each teacher plans each subject for her own class - interests and needs vary, and we follow a Creative Curriculum - I'll shut up now, as I'm waayyyy of thread now.
  18. SleighBelle

    SleighBelle Occasional commenter

    Slight overgeneralisation there... It depends very much on the expectations of individual schools.
    My Secondary-teacher friends do not have to plan in anywhere near as much detail as I do. They also tend to use have SoW set in place. They do, however, generally have more marking, more reports and more Parents' Evening appointments.
    My school expects me to plan each lesson in very specific detail. differentiated at least four ways, AfL, layered Success Criteria, objectives and outcomes, Guided group objective, support assistant objective.... Each lesson tends to fill at least a page of A4 when typed up. We are also no longer following the QCA schemes of work and each term requires a new 'Theme', planned from scratch. Fun, but hard work.
    Some Primary Schools expect less than my Head. Some Secondary Schools want more than the expectations on many of my friends who teach in Secondary Schools. You may need to plan in more detail than most, Lilac. Others do not.
    Also, Dumbledore doesn't appear to think it too much to plan all her subjects all week. The issue is planning for TWO classes, with all the additional issues there are with relaying information, ensuring the plans are followed by the covering teacher, dealing with any problems or misunderstandings, adapting as you go through the week to suit the needs of the children. It's much more difficult to do that with TWO parallel classes, because you don't even get to teach the other class.
  19. lindenlea

    lindenlea Star commenter

    PPA time together?

    There's another lovely can of worms.

  20. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    I'm a long term supply and not saleried.,and i do the planning along with my partner class....although the teacher might be quick to grab the ideas.I could I suppose ask them to planand i just use......but i just get on with it to help out.
    However, we do get PPA time to plan,although of late the english co-ordinator seems to keep arriving to want even more on the plans!
    Im am quite used to planning for all the subjects.....i did it as Hof D in a lage comprehensive and also in most primary schools as many have been one form entry.
    As to using plans.It is up to the individul to adopt a set of plans to suit their class......and normally this is acceptable.i often do and show the change on the planning
    Where it becomes a problem is when children are setted...as is happeneing a lot in 3 form entry schools in london and so Literacy and Maths are covered according to ability..then the planning,whilst of the general sameness is different in content for ability.
    Come on guys your professionals.....your lucky you get PPA.......a few years ago you didnt get any, or TA's.or guided reading..........we did the lot including listening to every chld read to you twice a week and all the subjects of the curriculum taught in one week (ugh the 40 minute lessons you became slick at doing) 14 strands of science over the time,plus the heaps of assessment we had to keep(shudders) plus your own displays,filing,preperation etc ,etc.Wonders ....should we who have been through this battle have rewards? lol

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