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Is this article not a good reason why emmigration to other lands is bad?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by oldsomeman, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

  2. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Established commenter

    It's great for us as many people here often say.
     
  3. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Ah yes, the hoover effect of the NHS combined with the failure of our University sector to educate enough medical staff.
     
    LondonCanary likes this.
  4. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    the very point that concerns me is that we do not educate enough,The cost factor alone stiops lots becoming medical staff.
    Yet this problem for other lands,includingdeveloping nations, is one reason we need to take action`/
     
  5. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I've lived in 3 other countries - for me it's was a very positive experience in all cases.
     
    agathamorse, InkyP and sparkleghirl like this.
  6. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    It's not anything I know much about, but I'm still somewhat amazed that nursing has become a graduate profession with all the extra costs to the individual that entails, not to mention the rather pointless tasks of writing multi-thousand word essays/dissertations to acquire the qualification.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  7. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    The Universities and teaching hospitals may be partly to blame for our supply of medics. As I used to teach students who aspired to do medicine it became obvious over a period of years the one particular Uni was making it harder and harder for students to get in. I know that they have to be of a particular claibre and smart, with hands on experience and so on, but the entrenched attitude of the universities should have changed before the millenium. There should be more and better routes into medicine, less of an "old boys" network, and more diversity of approach to both entry and teaching. One factor that did contribute was putting a massive watch on dropout rates where courses and universities were rated on these. I think it would be better to take on a much larger number of medical students and allow more to drop out because they do not meet certain levels, or cannot hack the blood, guts and dying. Personally, as a biologist and physiologist, I soon learned that I did not wish to do medicine wheras every single one of my contemporaries at A level did. So far as I know none of them got into medical school, but having said that I never kept in touch (but that was back in the 70s).
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  8. BertieBassett2

    BertieBassett2 Lead commenter

    My daughter applied twice to study medicine. On her second attempt during a gap year - she had volunteered at a hospital in Guadalajara (with photographic evidence of her assisting in brain surgery), worked as a Health care assistant in a small hospital, was a Grade 8 musician and an athlete at county level. She was selected for an interview, which also consisted of various role-play scenarios and achieved a score of 73%. The minimum required was 75%. Needless to say, she wasn't accepted - but what a waste of potential. She has no regrets now, though, and enjoys her role as a director of a Pharma PR company and believes that being a doctor 'wasn't to be'.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  9. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Is it also in part due to the large numbers of schools that have dropped separate sciences? I taught at a school with an impressive record of sending students to read medicine, and was given to understand that part of its success was due to the large numbers taking two or three separate sciences at GCSE followed by maths, physics and chemistry at A level. Quite a number took a 4th A level, usually in an arts subject, but I do recall being told that universities did not require biology for medics.
     
  10. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    It wasn't originally. Nurses were trained by their own professional body, which awarded nursing qualifications, as did many other groups of health workers, such as those involved with physiological measurements, physiotherapy, radiography and so on. Salaries had been based more on a sort of gut feel for how useful and demanding each job was.

    During the 70s, as inflation became rampant, certain jobs were falling behind in their pay. It was far easier to justify pay increases for jobs that required similar qualifications to those in industry which paid more, than for jobs that have no similar roles outside hospitals to compare with.

    Changing nursing qualifications into a structure that matched the qualifications expected outside health care was seen as the best way to turn nursing into a profession, rather than a vocation and improve the pay structure.

    I remember talking with a nurse around the time this was going on. She asked what she was supposed to do with a degree, other than to wipe a patient's arrse with it, but a lot has changed in health care since the 70s and a lot more is expected of nurses.
     
    oldsomeman and BertieBassett2 like this.
  11. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Emigration/immigration is not the cause of this crisis, or of the low wage, insecure job market we blame on cheap foreign labour.
    The cause of this is the downwards pressure on wages and conditions which is a direct result either of the insatiable desire of business for ever-increaing growth or, in the case of the NHS, the government opting for austerity in order to fund tax breaks for the wealthy. If government and businesses were prepared to fund proper wages and offer better working conditions, there'd be less need to exploit cheap labour from elsewhere.

    Poverty isn't caused by our inability to feed the poor, but by our inability to satisfy the wealthy.
     
  12. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Established commenter

    I think you will find they were trained by hospital nursing schools.
    Project 2000 was about the complexity of modern nursing as compared to the 1950s.
    Another made up anecdote.
     
  13. Wotton

    Wotton Lead commenter

    We train doctors and nurses and they leave once qualified to teach in work in Australia and NZ.
    I spoke to my local car wash person, he is from Romania, he said what he earns in England in a month would take him a year in Romania.
    When on a school exchange to Romania about 8 years ago, the teachers in the school we visited could not afford to buy a flight to England because of their low wages.
     
  14. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    IMO... the blame can be laid at the feet of the Blair administration who were told that for productivity to rise as it was in other nations, more automation and investment was required. They didn't like this as they'd already committed to big public spending boosts in Education and Health so they went for the 'cheap foreign labour' option and subsequent wage depression.
     
  15. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Bulgaria has ''lost'' 2 million people since 1988... partly a result of declining birth rates due to post-Soviet depression... and partly because of emigration to the more affluent EU members.

    Romania... 3.5 million.

    And in non-EU members... Ukraine with 7 million drop...
     
  16. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Star commenter

    "Another made up anecdote."

    What gives you the right to say that @LondonCanary ?
     
  17. schoolsout4summer

    schoolsout4summer Star commenter

    We do not educate enough - exactly.
    https://www.fluentin3months.com/basic-writing-skills/
     
  18. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    It has long been a problem for me that recognising we have a need. Most governments have paid only lip service to the need and not tackled the problem.
    I understand immigration for earnings..it has happened for many years...but in reality we do make it very hard for anyone to enter lots of professions. The cost can be huge as well as the stress, and in the end, there is not the vocational reward or job enhancement due to government bungling and interference.
    Back to the problem I am all for folks moving to enhance their experience of the various roles, but very much against poaching of another's nation talent, except maybe for them to arrive to develop theirs and then take back that learning to help their nation. I realise it won't happen for some of the reasons folks have mentioned in this thread, but its a dream.
     
    lexus300 and agathamorse like this.
  19. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    But only a few thousand came here. I remember being told that that was all we needed to expect.
     
  20. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Established commenter

    It's an opinion based on history.
    I don't believe a registered (or enrolled) nurse would use those words about a qualification they did not need.
     

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