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Is there ANY answer to this?!

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by maggieDD, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    But the truth is...............the bottom line is..................nothing works.
    Some things work some of the time.
    But in general nothing works...............if it did we'd not be having this conversation.
     
    geordiepetal and pepper5 like this.
  2. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Lead commenter

    Of course nothing is going to be 100% effective. Else we'd not have anyone breaking the law.

    But we can do what we can, and get it to a point where unacceptable behaviour is not the norm. In doing so you are unlikely to get away with it. That is possible and I've seen it in a number of schools (as long as the whole school is behind it, you can't do it on your own). I hope BDJ you can find a school like that (either get your SLT to see that it;s a problem or find somewhere that does)
     
    pepper5 likes this.
  3. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    Hi stiltskin

    The OP has tried all you suggest and more.

    The problem is as I see it may be this.

    The group the OP mentions in particular is a Year 5 class. So, they are going to be 9 or 10 years-old. Kids are inherently noisy.

    They perhaps don't understand they are too loud? So the problem may be they are not badly behaved as such, but unable to learn what sensible noise levels are? Could this be the real dilemma?
     
    galerider123 likes this.
  4. galerider123

    galerider123 Lead commenter

    I doubt that any teacher could train them over 1 hour a week.
    If four teachers really have left because of their behaviour, then frankly SLT is not supporting behaviour management properly in that school. Teachers will stick out pretty tough classes if they feel that they have the support of their management. In a blame culture school (vis a vis the teachers) a difficult class can mean having to deal with feelings of inadequacy (lke the OP is feeling) when normal strategies don't seem to be working, and SLT is tut tutting at your behaviour managment techniques rather than getting tough with or helping support the class themselves.
    I suppose they key question is do they get on with their work with all the noise? If so, the problem is only one lesson a week of relative noise for the OP. Sanctions really are loss of opportunity to create great work because of the time limitations if they work slowly because they are having a natter.
    Whatever one thinks about growth mindset, the video of the little boy refining his artwork could be a nice lesson for the OPs class on how much better their art/DT work cold be if they focus and work hard at it reflectively. If they were doing this I doubt that the OP would be so worried.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    Stiltskin likes this.
  5. maggieDD

    maggieDD New commenter

    Great video :)
    I do like mindfulness and practise it with my first and second years if I feel that they need a little calming down - and it works! I think this year 5 class would laugh me out of the county if I attempted to teach them mindfulness - it would be a prime excuse to make as many stupid noises as they can.
    I also teach (in another school) a class of 40 which includes 1 child who was excluded for a year and has returned without a 121 - so that's like a ticking time bomb for an hour each week! They're also extremely noisy but do get work done.
    I need to be able to stop the noise level affecting my stress levels - if I can do that (because that's far more achievable than taming these beasts) I might stop dreaming about working in Tesco instead....
     
    galerider123 and pepper5 like this.
  6. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    This is really all about manners.........basic manners.
    Many young people are not taught manners at home, and seeno reason to lesrn them at school.
     
  7. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    From the OP's last post, this does appear to be a case of an awkward group with no sense of manners.

    Why not have half a lesson on manners and one half art.

    Or, unless they stop being so noisy, stop the art lessons entirely. If I were the head, I wouldn't let the class have those lessons unless they cooperated. Or, pick out the ones tollowing the instructions and let them do it, but not everyone else. You really don't need the stress levels this noise creates.
     
  8. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    Agree 100%.
    But few (if any) schools are prepared to do this.
     
    NotAPowerRanger and pepper5 like this.
  9. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    I wish we could think of a solution.
     
    BelleDuJour likes this.
  10. maggieDD

    maggieDD New commenter

    Hmm....I cover everyone's PPA so that's not going to happen!
     
    pepper5 likes this.
  11. BelleDuJour

    BelleDuJour Star commenter

    In Secondary being sent out doesn't work.
    A student has to have really serious behaviour issues for SMT to even think of not letting them go on a trip.
    I'm telling you.......there really is no solution.
    The problem starts at home where manners are not taught, nor respect.
     
  12. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    Belle

    I agree with you. It is a lack of basic manners and respect. This is primary so the kids are that bit younger. I don't understand why the Head isn't involved. Surely, it is their job to speak to students and for them to help this class teacher.

    It does appear pretty unsolvable.
     
  13. Fedupwith

    Fedupwith New commenter

    Might have missed it in the posts, but how about getting them to set some of their own rules but under your guidance? Task would be group oriented to cone up with suggestions for the rules then voted on by the class. That way if they decide on the rules, they might abide by them.
     
  14. SEBREGIS

    SEBREGIS Lead commenter

    I've never understood why we are so afraid of having children work in silence. Unless there is a specific need to do it (like peer assessment) then I'm not sure what the benefit is.

    It's much easier to maintain silence than it is 'quiet'. There are no grey areas. No excuses. There is no reason for them to be talking so if they are, it's an obvious decision to break the rules.

    I would tell them that their lack of concentration is hampering their work. So today they will just be working in silence. No talking at all. That will get challenged but when students see that you are rigidly enforcing that rule, they will comply.

    Never worry about handing out detentions. You are taking away their break time. They can do that standing outside the staff room while you have a cup of tea, if need be. A friend of mine used to have his students do detention during lunchtime. They would stand behind him in the dining hall while he ate. I've taken them out with me on break duty and had them pick up litter. Just try to find the most convenient solution for yourself. It's about punishing them, not you.
     

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