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Is teaching any more one of the professions

Discussion in 'Education news' started by hammie, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    Erm, the GTC was abolished by Gove in 2012 ... so in that sense it is less of a profession now than it was a decade ago.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  2. JaquesJaquesLiverot

    JaquesJaquesLiverot Established commenter

    It was abolished - at different times, depending on where you are - but in England it has been replaced by the Teaching Agency, which does some of the same things.
     
  3. install

    install Star commenter

    Teaching is a job - with a poorly paid hourly rate, no Union recognition in places, no Overtime pay, no Bonus pay, no pay mobility in places. It is a job where teachers pay to train then earn a pittance - only to be observed, tried and judged by well paid non teachers. It is a job where some give up their time over and over agaim sometimes under the delusion that it might be professional to do so.

    Teaching us a job - where the word 'profession' or 'professional' equates to unpaid voluntary work often given in morning clubs, dinnertime meetings, after school clubs and over the supposed holidays and many other areas
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    agathamorse and ridleyrumpus like this.
  4. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

  5. install

    install Star commenter

    I love teaching - and wouldn't change my job for the world ...:cool:

    I see people for what they are and as individuals - especially when some are happy and honest, and refuse to be fooled by the word 'professional' . I think many teachers are not bitter at all- otherwise they would not continue doing the job :):):)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    agathamorse likes this.
  6. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    OED definition of profession:

    Teaching is a profession by definition ... a job which required training and qualification. Misuse of the term "professional" by poor man managers and weak acceptance of poor working conditions by teachers doesn't change that.
     
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  7. install

    install Star commenter

    The meaning is in reality changed though because some teachers are not treated or heard as 'professionals'. Hence, they cannot be 'professionals' because they are not allowed to be - and any qualifications and training they have is constantly undermined by poor pay,.observations, rejudgements and not being heard as a 'profession'.

    So the minute those qualifications and that training is negated - it takes away any professional dignity, voice or right. They are in effect not recognised as a 'profession' and sadly that is the case in all too many schools, free schools, academies and elsewhere :cool:

    Hence - the exodus and problems with recruiting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    agathamorse, hammie and tenpast7 like this.
  8. nervousned

    nervousned Senior commenter

    Does a one year PGCE really fit the definition of prolonged training? Most professions have much longer training periods before full qualification.
     
  9. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    Is teaching any more one of the professions

    We can countersign passport applications ........ QED.
     
    agathamorse and install like this.
  10. install

    install Star commenter

    I think we also need to establish what the OP means in the original thread title by: 'Is teaching any more one of the professions' ,.and clarifying what those 'professions' are or were ? It sounds like the OP may be referencing a traditional or longterm understanding of what a certain group of 'professions' may be :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  11. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    Whilst making my ground-breaking intervention I went on to this site
    https://www.passports-office.co.uk/blog/who_can_countersign_passport_application/
    and it gives this list.
    Occupations of those who are eligible to countersign:

    Countersignatories must work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession or be 'a person of good standing in their community', eg:

    • Accountant
    • Airline pilot
    • Articled clerk of a limited company
    • Assurance agent of recognised company
    • Bank/building society official
    • Barrister
    • Chairman/director of limited company
    • Chiropodist
    • Commissioner of oaths
    • Councillor, eg local or county
    • Civil servant (permanent)
    • Dentist
    • Director/manager/personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
    • Engineer - with professional qualifications
    • Financial services intermediary, eg a stockbroker or insurance broker
    • Fire service official
    • Funeral director
    • Insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
    • Journalist
    • Justice of the Peace
    • Legal secretary - fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs
    • Licensee of public house
    • Local government officer
    • Manager/personnel officer of a limited company
    • Member, associate or fellow of a professional body
    • Member of Parliament
    • Merchant Navy officer
    • Minister of a recognised religion - including Christian Science
    • Nurse - RGN or RMN
    • Officer of the armed services
    • Optician
    • Paralegal - certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals
    • Person with honours, eg an OBE or MBE
    • Pharmacist
    • Photographer - professional
    • Police officer
    • Post Office official
    • President/secretary of a recognised organisation
    • Salvation Army officer
    • Social worker
    • Solicitor
    • Surveyor
    • Teacher, lecturer
    • Trade union officer
    • Travel agent - qualified
    • Valuer or auctioneer - fellows and associate members of the incorporated society
    • Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers
     
    agathamorse and install like this.
  12. install

    install Star commenter


    Mmm....but we have the 'or' here.

    So those in the list may be from.' a recognised profession' - or not...:cool:

    Interesting though that 'a person of good standing in their community' is seen as being equal to someone from a 'recognised profession'. Is a teacher more like the 'person of good standing' these days, since the 'recognised profession' in teaching has gone?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  13. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    Yes indeed, low entry standards and quick-fix training routes have certainly helped to undermine professional standards, which I think is what this thread is really about.
     
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  14. ViolaClef

    ViolaClef Lead commenter

    A very good point, @nervousned. To which I would answer, no. I know people who felt that their so-called PGCE training year was a waste of time. However, I do think the four-Year Bachelor of Education Honours degree had much to offer. Not only was there the idea that most of those on the course genuinely wanted to teach, but there were four years of school visits, teaching practices, lectures on many aspects of teaching, courses on all the subjects taught in primary school, psychology of education, philosophy of education, history of education and further study in a subject specialism. The broad range of activities and the time for students to progress, evaluate and improve their skills were valuable.
     
  15. Maths_Shed

    Maths_Shed Occasional commenter

    Teaching in the UK isn't a profession and hasn't been for some time, if it ever was.

    When compared to doctors, dentists, lawyers and a few other roles, the training requirements and the responsibilities encumbent on those holding the position of teacher do not compare and should not be held in the same esteem.

    The list of people entitled to sign passports only confuses the issue, representatives of many of those listed refer to themselves as professionals which they are clearly not.

    Add to that public respect and its all a mess, anyone who works for the NHS is held in a higher regard than teachers.

    Don't get hung up on a word, it no longer holds the same meaning it once did and is now pretty much irrelevant.
     
  16. install

    install Star commenter

    Completely agree :cool:
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  17. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    I certainly agree with that, I did the 4 years and learnt so much about the broader nature of education, probably one reason why I feel so out of step with the current approach
     
    ViolaClef, agathamorse and install like this.
  18. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    Bet she was lazy as a child as well!
     

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