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Is pay really the main issue?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by David Getling, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Why do so many people think that money is the answer to everything?


    Well, we know that government takes no notice of these forums, and it seems that the same is true for the unions.

    I can't recall many posts saying: I'm getting out of teaching because they don't pay me enough.

    What I can recall time and time again are the following reasons:
    1. Appalling classroom behaviour.
    2. Work/life balance destroyed by vast amounts of unnecessary admin.
    3. Bullying SLT.
    And as for getting people in front of the classroom in the first place, just look at the jobseekers forum. There are many qualified teachers who want a job, that heads are turning their noses up at.
    petenewton likes this.
  2. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    I find certain language in those job adverts would put me off.whatever happened to a teacher of proven ability v outstanding,team-player, full participating, etc
    I also find the losing of experienced staff is a failure as they leave taking with then a vast range of knowledge.There is no value placed upon such experience.....only can they employ cheapy teachers
    Wages are important but they are not always relevant to a secure workplace and a team which considers your work to be of equal importance.
    Landofla likes this.
  3. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Well, pension (age) is important to me. But I would pay more contributions to have a lower retirement age.
    And I would rather have my work life balance than take on an SLT role so that suggests that money isn't the driver.
    As for heads hiring, I saw the report which showed academies have a lower average wage than maintained schools and thus are hiring more unqualified or newly qualified teachers and/or having greater churn and losing long established (UPS) teachers.
  4. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    Well I do think that teachers are grossly underpaid for the job they do but the reason that there is a recruitment crisis is the workload/work life balance/attitude of SLT. I have left teaching for those reasons and have taken a pay cut.

    However, I suspect that some younger teachers are getting out as they also see that they cannot progress up the pay scale without giving up their life for teaching. It's only a job after all.
    Landofla likes this.
  5. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    I don't think money is the main driver for the dissatisfaction of older teachers. Younger teachers with the burden of student loans and housing absorbing a higher fraction of their salaries, as well as a perceived collapse of career proression may well feel more unhappy.
    Compassman and Landofla like this.
  6. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    While no one goes into teaching for the salary, money is a reflection / measure of how a capitalist society values certain activities.

    It's also quite nice to be able to pay the bills.
    yasf, Compassman and Landofla like this.
  7. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    The pay is not brilliant but its certainly not the worst either. Many people who do escape teaching will find the pay in many non-teaching jobs are not much better and they are many that pay less.

    Poor mangement exists everywhere not just teaching and not all schools are poorly managed.

    Likew vast amounts of unnecessary adminise
  8. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    The two go together. If you're treated badly but paid well you might tolerate it. If you're treated badly and paid badly why would you stay? And similarly if you're treated well but paid badly you think it's worth it for the job satisfaction.
  9. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    The pay is not brilliant but its certainly not the worst either. Many people who do escape teaching will find the pay in many non-teaching jobs are not much better and there are many that pay less.

    Poor mangement exists everywhere not just teaching and not all schools are poorly managed.

    Likewise vast amounts of unnecessary admin exist in many jobs outside teaching (I think that it exists everywhere). And in other jobs people take work home with them although I think that teaching will at the top of the list for a poor work/life balance.

    But having to put up with poor behaviour on a constant basis is almost unique to teaching (with maybe the exception of being a copper or prison warden). In other jobs the rudeness and disrespect teachers have to put up with would not be tolerated and you will often see notices to the effect. But in teaching its not the offender's fault but the teachers. A teacher's career prospects can depend completely on the co-operation of unwilling and troublesome learners with no interest in achieving the targets their teachers has been tasked to achieve with them.

    If those in charge dealt with behaviour issues then they might find more teachers staying in the job.

    (Useless site crashed during my first attempt to post :mad:)
  10. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    The impact on well-being is an issue.
  11. Compassman

    Compassman Star commenter

    I often used to say there should be signs on corridors like you see in hospitals and railway stations about abuse of staff but the SLT seemed to think this a poor idea. Why? You don't come to work to be abused and their should be a consequence for the 'customer it happen.

    To be fair, at my last school you did get some reluctant workers but real abuse was rare.
  12. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    As regards poor behaviour it is really the attitude of SLT. Fortunately my school has a behaviour policy and SLT prepared to back it up. So though I agree with the other reasons for me the main retention point is attitude of SLT.
  13. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    I think that it depends what you compare it to. If you are a good graduate with a good degree from a good university in a useful subject, it's probably the bottom of the barrel. Particularly if you take pay progression into account.
    As a graduate in central London when teacher salaries were good, I remember keeping up more or less with most of my friends for about the first 5 to 8 years. They now earn at least 2 to 3 times what I do.
    yasf and wanet like this.

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