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Is bad behaviour out of control in our schools?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by TES_Rosaline, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. TES_Rosaline

    TES_Rosaline Administrator Staff Member

    A teacher at an alternative provision school shares his story about the harsh realities of working on the front line of the teaching profession:

    ‘And so a long, difficult term ended with one of my staff being punched in the head by an angry student. Actually, the student wasn’t that angry. She was more frustrated – frustrated that owing to her poor behaviour over the last seven weeks, she wasn’t allowed to go on the end of term trip, which was a key part of our behaviour system…

    Students can’t be allowed to do what they want, when they want at the expense of other people. It isn’t good for them or, ultimately, for society. I wholeheartedly support student voice and the rights of the student. Everyone should be treated fairly and with dignity and respect, but they are children. They can’t be allowed to bully and intimidate to get what they want. They can’t be allowed to spoil things for other people because they fell aggrieved. That isn’t right. Many of our students dominate at home. We have many parents, mothers and fathers, who are scared of their children: they control their households.

    We can’t allow this to happen at school. When I had started at the school five years previously, the students had controlled it. It was a frightening, intimidating place where very little work was done and no-one felt safe. Bullying was rife. We were deepest darkest special measures – it was horrible. I never want to go back to that. We had to uphold the system that all the stakeholders had signed up to…’

    https://www.tes.com/news/we-cannot-allow-pupils-intimidate-us

    This is an extreme case of violence in an alternative provision school, but it would be interesting to read your views about the issue of children’s behaviour and how schools manage bad behaviour especially when it gets out of control.

    What are your experiences of bad or violent behaviour in schools? Do you think that incidents of bad behaviour are dealt with effectively in your school? Are children allowed to routinely bully and intimidate staff to get what they want? What more can be done to encourage good behaviour in school? What tips and policies do you think have worked to manage/stop bad/violent behaviour? Is a zero tolerance policy the only way to deal with negative behaviour in our schools?
     
    agathamorse and pepper5 like this.
  2. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Established commenter

    "Is bad behaviour out of control..." Well surely if it was under control, it wouldn't be bad!?
     
  3. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Bad parenting and lack of SLT-spine is at the root of the problem, and it's a problem across the Anglosphere. This from an Ohio school board meeting in March of this year:

     
  4. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    What?

    Again?
     
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Evidence shows they are not effective and are often counterproductive.

    So, no.

    There are better ways.
     
  6. Lalex123

    Lalex123 Occasional commenter

    Parents need to be taught how to parent. The amount of time (and money) wasted in classrooms by poor behaviour is outrageous.

    If students are disruptive, why doesn’t the local authority provide mandatory training for parents to help them at home? Or start this earlier before the problem starts? When you have a baby, a health visitor is assigned to each family for support; surely this could expand to help with parenting?
     
  7. maggie m

    maggie m Occasional commenter

    Spineless SLT have a lot to answer for. At present we have a year 11 student flouting all the rules regarding public exams. Talking, refusing to hand over his phone etc etc What have SLT done? Nothing. Word has it they are frightened he wiil kick off and hit someone.(he has viloently aasualted another student in the past ) He has been a nightmare for the last 2 years, rude, defiant, aggresive. What have SLT done? You guessed it. Nothing.
     
  8. install

    install Star commenter

    Behaviour of students needs to come back under parental/ guardian responsibility and accountability.
    Sadly - Ofsted try to judge and blame poor behaviour on school teachers. Even penalising schools that exclude too many students.
     
  9. -Maximilian-

    -Maximilian- New commenter

    Yes. The same disruptive pupils, continue to disrupt and little is done. If said pupil does nothing major or dangerous, except constant, everyday rudeness and disruptive behaviour then said pupil continues to be put back into lessons and continue to ruin it for everyone else. I suspect most state schools are the same.
     
  10. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    If this is happening in an exam then you must report it.
     
  11. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    all the time lowest cost and ofsted threats are the driving force to keeping poorly behaved pupils in schools then this country will continue to have some of the poorest behaviour and attitude to school in the world.
     
  12. Jenkibubble

    Jenkibubble Occasional commenter

    Parenting classes are the mandatory first step
    in getting an early health assessment (diagnosed
    with SEN) - perhaps rolling it out for those who
    persistently disrupt could be the answer, although would resources stretch ?
     
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Worth considering although care should be taken not to pathologize normal adolescent behaviour. Some pupils can be a significant nuisance but they are not necessarily learning disabled.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  14. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Then you have bad management, not bad children.
     
  15. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    Holy grail stuff. We'll still be discussing appalling behaviour in schools in hundreds of years time. When we find the way to make all students behave in a sensible manner rather than the loutish yobbery displayed by many we'll have found one of the holy grails of teaching. I'm not optimistic.
     
  16. drek

    drek Lead commenter

    unsurportive parents could definitely do with mandatory training or fines because their child is spoiling the life chances of others in the the group.
    Councils have after all managed to find funding to retrain drivers for travelling at 30 miles in a 20 mile zone even when the road is empty of other cars and people.......
    But with falling school budgets this is not going to happen ever.....
    When a parent is informed about their child being rude because they’ve been asked repeatedly to stop messing about/disrupting lessons and they respond in the same rude and aggressive manner as their child......they do it because they can and they know there is no comeback or support for the staff who effectively is facing verbal abuse from both child and parent.

    making those phone calls to such homes is draining and sooo uncomfortable but according to SLT and dfe those of us who have the worst of the behaviour offenders piled on to us by the lead staff........we have to do this over and extra above those who don’t?

    But then what exactly is fair about actual teaching hours and pay for ‘performance’......
     
  17. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    Maybe having people who couldn't or who didn't want to be in a classroom, in charge might be a hint as to why poor behaviour is getting rooted in so many schools. It is the DH who no longer has a teaching timetable who used to rely on his excellent teaching and personal relationships with classes taught but seems to think that by saying "am disappointed in you and you are letting me and yourself down" to a burgeoning young thug who doesn't give flying fork what the DH thinks of him....
    Then there is the person who for reasons unknown to 99% of the staff is promoted to "Behaviour Manager". This means that supposedly in charge of a suite of rooms designed to help children learn (and improve) they make darn sure that the TAs in the school are left with these very challenging pupils whilst they pace hurriedly around the school (clipboard underarm....looking frightfully busy and important...oh and let's not forget 'overworked') Religiously producing a bulletin sheet each week , which actually just needs some diligent copying and pasting from previous 'info'. The main contact with the students is to decide to champion one of the worst thugs and to ensure that no one can manage to get him excluded as he is hidden behind the Behaviour Manager. Meanwhile the SMT amass evidence of which staff send the most pupils to the behaviour suite...... so they can receive the pursed lips act from SMT as they point out that they have no trouble from the sainted 'johnny'
    I wonder how many classroom teachers who are using their sanction of a 5/10 minute "thinking " sanction when a persistently misbehaving child is sent out of the room (not forgetting that before that stage the member of staff has completed the umpteen points on the behaviour flow chart!) This attempt to give the rest of the class 10 minutes of peaceful learning until the not at all remorseful child is brought back into the lesson by the SMT 'on patrol' is thwarted all too often. The teacher might even receive a veiled telling off for having sent poor little 'Johnny' out and been spoiling his learning - this in front of the class too. Said child returns with a smirk on its face and a lesson learned in how to get away with doing no work etc.
    If I were in charge I would have every member of SMT teaching an exam class - and I include the HT and it being understood that any member of staff not teaching at that time can do a 'learning walk' so they can learn from the top how it is all done.
     
  18. Norsemaid

    Norsemaid Senior commenter

    I don't believe that schools help themselves when it comes to tackling poor behaviour but there are other factors involved as well.
    Causes being, afraid of ofsted , fear of upsetting parents, laziness , staff appointed to roles in which they are not suited to , fear of upsetting the little darlings, SLT undermining teachers and support staff who implement the behaviour system , poorly thought out behaviour systems and it then becomes a vicious cycle .
    Added on to the above is the parents view of their school days which they then transfer to their children and so have students entering school with the tainted view of education before the,y have even set foot in the building as well as
    Poor parenting , sense of entitlement from both parents and students .

    Lack of consistency in implemting the behaviour policy throughout the school, which produces frustration and bad feeling doesn't help and of course apathy is a big hinderance .
    Oh and last but not least there is no respect for educators these days and this is crucial .

    The trouble is for decades we had a few " cane happy " teachers who belted all and sundry for any misdemeanour and in reality should not of been anywhere near children . (I have to say that in my schooling years though the cane was a threat and very very rarely used and law and order was maintained well out of mutual respect ). This is in turn breeds resentment which as I have mentioned earlier has carries on in some cases for generations.

    It's a bit of a mess and in the end no one "wins" . Teachers leave because they are exhausted , feel undermined by SLt , parents and students alike and the students through their own actions and being allowed to get away with things have a greater chance of facing a less than productive life in the future .
     
    geordiepetal and MarieAnn18 like this.
  19. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    In the UK, i think that it's OFSTED, the politicians and the house prices that are out of control. At my present school in China, we occasionally have one or two small incidents, but most of the time the students are well-behaved and a pleasure to teach.
     
  20. Lalex123

    Lalex123 Occasional commenter

    Do you think that’s because the parents value education in China a lot more than the uk and that’s why there are so few incidents?
     

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