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Is anyone finding?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Happyregardless, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. Happyregardless

    Happyregardless Occasional commenter

    Is anyone finding the whole emphasis and onus of society is changing in these times, in regards to teaching and learning online?

    I speak after an online lesson where the pupil was eating Monster Munch for breakfast, then spent a considerable amount of time distracted and brushing crumbs off of her chair. ( but does seem to have ADHD tendencies) Producing a piece of year 6 writing then turned into her looking up facts on Wiki and telling me what to type. Following the lesson ( in attempt to present a credible piece of writing to parents/give lesson feedback) I spend another hour, proofreading, editing and updating her work for her. In a 'normal class' you would probably build this up over a series of lessons maybe over a week, so perhaps it's my own fault for trying to complete a finished piece of work in one lesson. I mentioned this in the lesson feedback email to parent so it will be interesting to see what feedback I get.

    Some children, even the polite. well behaved, considerate ones I teach, have been presenting as lazy, half asleep, eating all sorts ( no not the liquorice kind) but all kinds of food whilst I'm teaching them online as if I should wear a box on my head to become a pseudo TV or as if I am some sort of entertaining live Utube video/cinema? Or conversely, so 'overscheduled' that " No I haven't been able to do your homework, as I've had x,y,z's homework to do this week - one child with an 8 minute timer/buzzer to have a break between lessons that spanned from about 8am till 6pm?

    Where is the personal responsibility? For one online group I teach online, to have records of worksheets completed etc, I end up downloading these from their school website, filling these in before the lesson, so I then have a completed copy of work to email to parents following each lesson, as any annotation on Zoom documents is erased. Therefore the children do work through subject matter with me and I check their understanding of this, but, they often don't have the worksheet in front of them or haven't had a go at set work - it just seems increasingly more that the onus is being put on the teacher rather than the pupil?

    I this just something I am beating myself over the head with trying to be concientious, maybe overconcientous, or what have others found?

    The 'entitlement attitude' seems to present like "Everything is up to the teacher, they will do it for me and if they don't it's their fault I'm not at the level I need to be/pass the exam I need to then we will blame them. More and more in the news and elsewhere too, communities' attitudes towards teachers/schools are turning this way, and of course the government encourages this. It's all too easy as a collective to dump everything on a group of professionals, but when was the last time you blamed a doctor because you weren't eating healthily or exercising?
    ACOYEAR8, steely1, Alice K and 2 others like this.
  2. SCAW12

    SCAW12 Occasional commenter

    Are you doing one to one tutoring paid by the hour? The reason I ask is that this will make you more accountable to parents regarding the work the students produce. At school, we teach remotely in groups only, the students complete the work with our support there and then, we then provide the answers, the students then mark their work against the answers checking misunderstandings along the way with the teacher. The onus is on them. Or if the work is a written task, they email the completed work to the teacher for marking. If work is not submitted, there is no marking, the onus is on them. If my student's progress is checked upon by parents, I simply reply, they did not complete the set work for me.
    Happyregardless and agathamorse like this.
  3. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    So heartfelt! But there's something missing in the opening post.
    The kids are at home.
    There have been literally hundreds of threads during lock down about the multiple shortcomings of distance teaching.
    Barely any about distance learning.
    They are at home.

    Whilst teachers are busting a gut to teach, many of them are also thinking "I wish I had the kids here in front of me in order to get the things done.
    But the fact that truly steers the process is that no kid in their right mind has the thought "I wish that teacher was here in front of me so I could learn this properly". Because they are at home. Who wants a teacher in their home? Any sort of curriculum they would normally digest at school is simply invasive. For some kids in a minor way, and for other kids in a wholehearted way.
    Given the situation of the kids, the sentiment of entitlement is actually ours.

    If you've clocked a kid eating Monster Munch then it's a privilege that they'd want to attend your lesson at the same time.

    (I am also teaching full time and at a distance,btw...not easy. But I wont tell them how to behave, or even think it.Not in their own home )
  4. hhhh

    hhhh Star commenter

    On the plus side, they're safe, and no child is feeling bullied by loud children throwing things at them in class and preventing them from listening.
    Online teaching just makes the issue of 'accountability' more obvious-it's not online v. IRL that is teh real issue. Pre-nineties, children were responsible for their exam results. Headteachers only went into classrooms to help out with discipline, or to provide pastoral or emotional support. Nowadays some teachers consider it perfectly fine that they should be held responsible for any 'missed targets', 'observed' and 'learning-walked'-often by SLT not even qualified in their subjects.
    Had Zoom or Meet existed in 1980, and had children been asked work at home, no teacher would have been doing the work for the child. No HT would have been checking up on the majority of their staff (I'm not denying that a FEW teachers were lazy or useless-but the heads knew who they were and left the good ones alone).
  5. Happyregardless

    Happyregardless Occasional commenter

    All valid points indeed. I'm not denying that they're 'at home' - but, for example, I also have an online physio appointment that I make sure I am at least ready and listening to - it might be from home, but I am still listening to and taking advice and implementing what the physio tells me to do.

    hhhh - I think you're more on the nail - it is imply an issue of accountability and personal responsibility. Parents and families are now 'consumers' and seeing education in this same light.
    why make any effort yourself if you can buy someone to do it for you?
  6. Carltoz

    Carltoz New commenter

    So you typed the work for the student. Then proof read it and edited it so the students parents could see it?
    Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick here, but you do all that and then complain about lack of personal responsibility of the student? It's no wonder they don't care/can't be bothered. Parents see all your work not theirs!
    As a parent (of a moody year 10) I would far rather see the hash he made of it than the teacher's efforts at making it look better.
  7. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    A fine choice, I love monster munch.
  8. Flanks

    Flanks Senior commenter

    You attend physio by choice, have them do a remote appointment with you by choice. Your choice.

    The pupils have no such choices at all in their lives and expecting them to take responsibility in the same was as if they do is quite naive. It is a common naivity in the teaching profession, but still naive all the same.
    Pomza and sbkrobson like this.
  9. colacao17

    colacao17 Senior commenter

    What is the objection to them eating moster munch - or anything else - during class?

    In real school, I don't want them eating in my class because
    1 it's a lab, so safety
    2 they leave a mess, crumbs on the desk/floor
    3 they drop the packet on the floor
    4 monster munch smell
    5 noise of eating and rustling packets is distracting for others in the room

    None of those apply - to me at least - if they're on the end of a video meet with the mic muted.

    So, provided they're there and taking part in the class, I really don't care if they're eating.

    This might be stretching it abit, but it might even be a compliment, in a way. When I have a 'treat' of some kind, a bar of chocolate, the alst piece of cake, a packet of crisps, sometimes I think "oh I'll save that for later when i sit down to watch ...."
  10. cheesypop

    cheesypop Senior commenter

    Don’t do their work for them so you can show their parents their work that you have done.

    Their work, however non existent or rubbish it is, is much more effective lesson feedback if you want the parents to take action.

    You saying ‘John did this in lesson, but 4 hours later it looked like this’ is confusing because the parents could assume that all this work you put in is normal. Otherwise why would you be doing it?

    Do you record these lessons? If so, just send them that.
    Happyregardless and Pomza like this.
  11. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    Our school has really come unstuck during remote learning because many of our teachers massively (over) support the children when they are in school to make it look like they are accessing the curriculum / producing work of a good standard - in fact very few of them are capable independent students and the parents were not delighted to have their eyes opened to this during lockdown.
  12. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Pickled Onion flavour only please. Tomato Ketchup flavour is gross.
    Some of mine appear to be eating in every single session and they are 3-4 years old and have six sessions a day! Some of them are even being fed things like yogurt by a parent while the lesson goes on. I honestly don't mind and either ignore it or ask what it is if it looks yummy.
    You mention something about year 6...why on earth are they doing lessons from 8am to 6pm?
    And if they can't do your homework because they have too much other homework, then that is the fault of the school and timetabling.

    Relax and have a coffee while you teach. Or a G&T in the afternoon in a pretty water bottle and they'll never know.
  13. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

  14. Abitofeverything

    Abitofeverything Occasional commenter

    I think you're being a bit harsh. This is really hard on kids of all ages, and I think even the keenest and most motivated of kids are finding it hard to maintain their concentration and enthusiasm. Just do the best you can, not long now till summer, and hopefully we'll all be back in school in Sep.
  15. Happyregardless

    Happyregardless Occasional commenter

    The pupils have no such choices at all in their lives and expecting them to take responsibility in the same was as if they do is quite naive. It is a common naivity in the teaching profession, but still naive all the same.

    Actually, they do have a choice, as these are private pupils who have requested help and their parents have then sought this? I'm sorry you think I am naive, and you are entitled to your opinion. You're opinion meaning that's all it is and not fact.

    Just do the best you can, - JUST a tad condescending with the emphasis placed on teacher -nice one ?lol Actually my online classes are great, pupils love them and I enjoy teaching them - just pointing out it's not unreasonable to ask pupils not to be stuffing their faces with snacks and then with the resulting distraction that causes in lesson - but yes I will just request this and think it will be fine ;)

    Agreed, pickled onion flavour is the best ;)
  16. Happyregardless

    Happyregardless Occasional commenter

    Or a G&T in the afternoon in a pretty water bottle and they'll never know.

    ermm no actually - not my style of professionalism! :eek:o_O
  17. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Oh for goodness sake! It wasn't a serious suggestion!

    Why are year 6s online from 8-6 and also have homework is a much more pertinent point in my post and one you have failed to answer.

    Errrm because parents seeking private tuition are often ones that fail to see that their child is the problem in why they aren't achieving in school. The child blames the school, the parent blames the school, the parent pays out for tuition. Very possibly the child is behaving in your lesson exactly as they do in school.
    zee210 likes this.
  18. ld7675

    ld7675 Occasional commenter

    Could you not state your expectations before you start the lesson, like a home school agreement? My school sent some requirements when the online teaching was rolled out and in an email to parents made it clear that classroom behaviour was to be expected. If the expectations for behaviour are clear you can then give them a warning and ultimately remove them from the online session if behaviour doesn't match your expectations. Sorry if this is unsympathetic but virtual learning is all they're getting at the moment so they really need to engage with it.

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