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Interpreting Carol Dweck's Motivation Questionairre

Discussion in 'Mathematics' started by mature_maths_trainee, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. Nope, just a practical attitude to sorting out miscommunications where things have gone wrong.
    Should you wish to.
    Which is seems you don't which is entirely your right.
    In which case stop posting on this thread unless either:
    a) you have something interesting to say about Carol Dweck
    b) you just one of these nutters who thinks it a great idea to trash a good conversation with a continuous assassination of my character because that's what turns you on.
    c) you want to put a bit of effort into getting past the misunderstanding which has occurred.

    Enough. Time to go and chat to Scottish teachers about curriculum for excellence.
    MathsMA most of the rest of your questions are covered on other threads in opinion.
  2. To be honest, no, I don't think you have. I like to think I'm well read, and a little knowledgeable about the people you mention - Kuhn, Popper, et al - and yes, they have points, but I'm certain they'd agree that Mathematics - the proven, concrete stuff, that's been around since man first learned to scribe on a clay tablet - is objective. The whole scientific falliablity, paradigm shift stuff is such because science is applied mathematics - like poetry is applied language - and hence is open to interpretation.
    But Mathematics itself certainly isn't. The difference between pure mathematics and applied mathematics is this - Pure just simply 'is'; Applied takes the agreed, proven statements of Pure Mathematics and uses them to solve problems in context.
    Creating social constructs is all well and good as you have rules in which to do so, but if you don't have the rules in the first place, then how can you play the game?
  3. MathsMA

    MathsMA New commenter

    So now we're merely talking about demonstration lessons on ad hoc basis! That's somewhat different to what you inferring in your posts above about your "wealth of experience" in Middle Eastern schools (similarly your Little Beetles role & experiences would appear to be at odds with your earlier claims).
    I think that quote says it all, in that a school of choice is not really one where pupils would be considered challenging (in context and all relative of course).
    Could you quickly provide a summary then as given the propensity of threads, pages & posts on Opinion it is very difficult to pick all the pieces and put them together. It shouldn't take you too long to compose a short answer outlining your experiences and picking up on the pieces I've mentioned.
    It looks as though we have the earlier pieces tied up so it's really relating to Ehenside (with the two Year 11 Statemented kids & the 34 Year 9 pupils) and your experiences post that (I'm particularly intrigued about your freelance consultancy role & your current status and contributions with MMU).
    Thanks in advance.
  4. MathsMA

    MathsMA New commenter

    And further to my post above and in your own words:
    I have pointed out what you have missed.
    Indeed, rather than just say "they're answered on opinion".
  5. DM

    DM New commenter

    Don't get caught in the snow. We don't know what we would do without you.
  6. DM

    DM New commenter

  7. MathsMA

    MathsMA New commenter

    It too leaves me cold, not least as it would appear that many fail to grasp the reality of working in "challenging" schools. Their inexperience in moving from the theoretical to the reality of the practical needs to be highlighted and challenged.
    Absolutely. IMHO the single biggest influence in achieving success (however success is defined) is down to the relationship established between the teacher and the class. Get that right and you have a chance of moving on.
    Whilst I would accept that stimulating, interesting, challenging and engaging taks play their part, as you point out, in many classes without teahcer intervention and input, even these tasks degenerate in to "who has copped off with whom" and "who do you think should win The X Factor".
    What he said.
    And if others challenge this, then my response would be that I really don't think you have had the experience of "challenging" classes .
  8. Karvol

    Karvol Occasional commenter

    Are you really trying an ad hominem type argument against me? Really?
    How old are you, 5?
    I simply pointed out that you do not read the posts for what they are but for what you wish them to be and you get offended.
    I ask you for your background and you quote working in HK and the M.E. in a number of schools which I take at face value. It now turns out you were working as a TESOL teacher in a primary school and then going to the M.E giving odd lessons on this and that for the British Council.
    And you accuse me of being deluded?
    Frankly, put up or shut up yourself.
    At least I can thank the OP for introducing the works of Carol Dweck to me. You might want to look into her C.V. She has actually published material and works in a University.
  9. I think that has summed your whole forum persona up in one.
    Someone who doesnt respond to points raised but simply spouts something even more off the wall to try baffle folk with a higher understanding. Mathematics is great becuase its generally right or wrong. Unfortunately this is an area of maths that allows people to talk, well....rubish, which can only be challenged with another subjective view.
    If you bring your road show/comedy act down south I would love to go..I enjoy learning...I would though probably be spending more time just watching the response of rest of the room.
    Im sure the 21 year old PGCE puppy would lap it up whilst doing his hard sort yet 99% of those who have done the job and continue to do it would probably be looking for the exit or nytol.

  10. So what "is" multiplication scentless_apprentice? and anyone else who's watching.
  11. I'm quite happy with the Wikipedia definition:
    "Multiplication (symbol "×") is the mathematical operation of scaling one number by another."
  12. And when God created the universe he also created wikipedia. And lo maths was done and the objective reality was created. Actually I find wikidpedia brilliant.
    How do you scale one number by another?
  13. You asked me to say what multiplication is. I gave you a definition. I didn't say that wikipedia was the be all and end all.
    I've listened to your viewpoints, I've questioned them, disagreed with them, debated your choice of references and I hope proferred a coherent argument against them. However with comments like
    you've seemed to have got fed up with my questioning of your ideas and just gone for plain sarcasm.
    I'm not trying to be morally superior in this discussion - I'm just coming from principle of Mathematics being objective. If you can't accept that, fine. But what you have to agree that a debate about the social construct concept of Mathematics has no place in a child's classroom, as the effects of it can be catastrophic. You've even admitted that you'd ignore your own priniciples in exam revision, so basically you're saying that at this point you'd teach to a test?
    The issue there is that you've basically spent two years deconstructing a student's concrete belief in mathematics, and then in the space of a few weeks decided to try and reconstruct it along the lines of where I, and many other objective people come from.
    So, if that's your goal, where does your teaching style actually get you?
  14. I'm not trying to be acid scentless_apprentice, just a bit funny. It seems I missed the mark so please accept my apologies.

  15. A much more robust, secure and flexible understanding of mathematics for my students.
    They don't just accept what they are told, they challenge it, connect it to other ideas and, most importantly, discuss and describe it. Describing your own understanding of mathematics is well established as being one of the most powerful tools for learning.
    And an environment of confident mathematical creativity and invention. Of course most of what is being invented has already been established and proven by others. But interestingly not all of it.
  16. Maths_Mike

    Maths_Mike New commenter

    I tire of even reading this thread which is becomingly increasingly dull and increasingly a personal slagging match.

    Surely however Weebecka must agree that even if these brilliant methods work for her they wont work for everyone?

    Look at Bowland Maths - some professor somewhere got a huge grant to explore new ways of teaching maths and spent a huge amount of time producing resources that numeracy stratergy advisors (at least in my area) were telling us was the way to go.
    In practice these materials failed (in my experience and many others I have spoken too).
    Some of us managed (through considerable time spent planning and adapting) to use bits of some of the activities but in general they were too difficult, not suitable for whole classes (unless you ahve 10 in your class) and the supposed high quality ICT was laughed at. The story lines werent fouling anyone and were about as exciting to modern streetwise kids as watching grass grow.

    I am sure the profesor somewhere has considerable eveidence of how pupils loved these materials and how they improved standards but I would think the ebidence from the wider population would disagree.

    Of course you could say actually its not the resources - they are truely superb - it the ability of the teachers to deliver them - well that might be the case - as with Weebecka's ideas - they may be brillaint for her - that does not mean they are the best way for everyone.

  17. I'm far from persuaded that this is can be a reality. Maybe in the top set at Eton you can sometimes coax children into deriving basic mathmatical theorems by themselves, but even there I'd guess it's a difficult thing to do.
    In other subjects, yes, but there creativity isn't such a high bar.

  18. Ooops - that was just a typo - I wasn't scoring points against wikipedia! I like wikipedia.
  19. Very good point Maths_Mike,
    You may have noticed I'm very cautious of telling other teachers how to teach (although I'm sure it doesn't seem so to some). I've only referred to a few activities to illustrate conversations.
    I believe students should be taught (in a critical way if possible) a robust curriculum.
    However I also believe students should spend some time working on activities which start from where they are and build from there. There a many, many ways this can be done. It is important the teacher has significant freedom in the way they choose to do this, both to best utilise their own strengths, but also because it's hard enough to construct activities which start from the child in this way when you've got a class of 30 different students to deal with. If you're being told what to do from above as well it's damn near impossible.
    What's needed instead is that teachers have access to inspiring examples of such teaching. ATM has always been very good at this, but ethonographic videos (where you see good lessons and the teacher is interviewed so that the viewer can understand their context, motives and perception as to what's going on) and well constructed training can also be helpful. The aim of such training and resources should not be to 'tell the teacher what to do' but to give them a taste of what is possible, communicated in a way so that they can take what they want from it and leave what doesn't suit them.
  20. It is a reality and it's a particularly interesting realit with exceptionally challenging sets who won't sit down, shut up and listen. Some sets go straight from being 'unteachable' to 'inspirational' without having to be 'sit down, shut up and behave sets on the way.
    Obviously it's not just about what you do, but also who you are and how you see and interact with the students.

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