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International Newbies

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by adrixargentina, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Business Studies is often taught by ICT teachers in schools where the A Level isn't offered. Also, in places that teach politics or economics, those teachers will often cover Business Studies. If you only have Business Studies and nothing else (and a degree that isn't in Politics or Economics) then that might be the problem. What is your degree if you don't mind me asking?

    The problem probably isn't your application - it's the subject you offer. There are very few teachers with a full timetable of Business Studies
  2. teachersn

    teachersn New commenter

    My degree is in Hospitality and Catering management. I have been both head of ICT and business here in the UK before becoming a member of SLT. I have taught Business and ICT, travel and tourism, enterprise and creative media so I feel like I am versatile. Equally my wife is also a teacher of DT and Art so I keep thinking as a package we would be appealing.

    Is the degree the prohibitive factor?
  3. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    What is your PGCE in?

    ICT exists less and less on the international circuit. It's being slowly replaced with Computer Science as it has been in the UK. As for Business Studies - I don't know. There are very few BS jobs that come up (solely BS). If you look at the available jobs at the moment, most are in Business Studies and Economics, which means that the candidate would have to have experience / qualifications in Economics too.

    The problem with your level of versatility is that some heads would see it as being a 'jack of all trades'. There is a lot more focus on teachers being extremely experienced in their specific subject areas in international schools, whereas it's not uncommon for teachers to pick up other subject responsibilities and cover many areas in the UK.

    The only suggestion I can make is asking for feedback in schools in which you are not successful.
  4. teachersn

    teachersn New commenter

    Thanks T0nyGT. I may need to brush up on Computer Science but I guess without a degree in the subject I may not be able to teach it. I wonder.. if you get a job as business they would still use teachers in other subjects?
  5. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Your wife will easily get a job, you will have much more of a hard time getting something.

    Best of luck
  6. HeroForTheDay

    HeroForTheDay Occasional commenter

    As business tends to be a KS4 subject only, you're looking at a small timetable depending on the size of the school you're in. Secondly, as already mentioned, schools tend to tie in business teachers with other subjects like econs/accounts. If they can't do so then you're expected to also be able to teach a KS3 subject to fill in your timetable. All of the schools I've seen don't really offer the subjects you have experience in (T&T, Creative media etc) and so your application really limits what it is you offer. ICT may be an option but as mentioned that subject is being phased out for CS. If you could get some experience in some other subjects at KS4 (humanities or the sciences) your application would be much stronger.
  7. ToK-tastic

    ToK-tastic New commenter

    Don't restrict yourself to Search Associates. Have a look at GRC , we've used Search in the past, but for a whole range of reasons have now switched to GRC, as have many other schools. There's lots of talk about GRC across my network (which includes colleagues at so called "Tier 1" schools). GRC is free for both candidates and recruiters, it's a collaborative process. Candidates are trying to find the right school, recruiters are trying to find the right candidates, I wonder why we need (the expensive) middlemen of Search etc ? GRC is a more mutually beneficial & reciprocal way of working.

    I don't work for GRC, I have no connection with them other than working at one of their recruiting schools. We've used most of the other big agencies in the past (Search, ISS-Schrole etc), but we've heard good things about GRC, so let's give them a try this year. Doubts ? Well, the list of schools already using GRC is reassuring.
  8. spanboy

    spanboy Occasional commenter

    The OP IS the wife! :)
  9. makhnovite

    makhnovite Established commenter

    He's not very bright but he can lift heavy things!
    yasf and dumbbells66 like this.
  10. ToK-tastic

    ToK-tastic New commenter

    What's all this "KS3", "KS4" stuff? I have a vague memory of something called "Key Stage" during those dark distant days when I worked in the Brid-ish Education process. Then I found this wonderful new world of education: International Education, it's beyond the hove of Gove, where Ofsted is just a traumatic memory, and key stages might be the best locations at a music festival.

    Beyond jest, most international schools don't follow an English & Wales curriculum model. In most international schools colleagues won't recognise the nomenclature of the DfE etc. There are many international schools where you will find roles exclusively teaching Business Management or Business Studies etc. In the IB Diploma Business Management is one of the most popular subjects in I&S (there's a non-UK acronym). In my experience Business Management has been one of the more difficult subjects to find good candidates for recruitment in recent years, but when we recruit we want IBDP experience in the subject.

    A friend of mine, who is a less than enthusiastic educator, recently landed a Business job at a "gilt edged" Tier 1 school in Asia (not in Thailand). Said friend has 15+ yrs experience in IB Business Management. Informal discussions with SLT at the recruiting school, I asked (somewhat incredulous) about the appointment, the simple reply was "he was the best applicant".
  11. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    He's not talking about OP. He's talking about the poster with the teaching wife
  12. teachersn

    teachersn New commenter

    I appreciate everything that people have said - I will keep going with applications and if it is meant to be then I will get a job. Anyone willing to help with letter and or CV lease send me a convo, it would be very much appreciated.
  13. tb9605

    tb9605 Established commenter

    Just a thought, but versatility might be appreciated more in a smaller school, where it makes little economic sense to employ a teacher that can only really teach one subject as they wouldn't then have a full timetable. I was offered a job in a very small school (180 pupils) because I was able to offer English, History, Philosophy and Global Perspectives and that covered various gaps in their timetable. (I didn't take it in the end, as a better offer came through the very next day.)

    Good luck.
  14. adrixargentina

    adrixargentina Occasional commenter

    Well since writing my original post, I have had a long-list Skype interview. I don't think I'll get shortlisted (won't know for a couple of weeks though) but it was a good experience...and even though I was apprehensive about it, I'm glad I did it.

    I've got another chat possibly with another Head, I've just got to send my husband's CV to him to see if we can move forward.

    Exciting times!
    austin_jen, mermy, YNWA1892 and 2 others like this.
  15. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Excellent, well done. Onwards and upwards
    adrixargentina likes this.
  16. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    Well done, adrixargentina!

    ToK-tastic - British schools tend to use KS3/4/5 as a simple term to describe the age grouping which most teachers from the UK are familiar with. If they used "middle school" or "middle years" they'd be met with blank looks. And if the split follows the British primary / secondary pattern, it fits quite well.

    One thing on your comment though - I (genuinely) don't understand why Business Management is so popular internationally, particularly at IGCSE but also at IB. The Russell Group universities in the UK don't rate it as one of their key subjects, most business-related degree subjects worldwide don't require it as an entry subject, and back in the UK it was always seen as the "easy" subject for students who couldn't cope with the other humanities subjects on offer. (OK - I'm not a BM teacher, but even the business teachers I speak to in my school don't understand its popularity either - they just don't speak about it because it keeps them in a job!)
    ToK-tastic and adrixargentina like this.
  17. Mr_Frosty

    Mr_Frosty Established commenter

    For what its worth I see a number of business studies related jobs here in the UAE - I have a separate email account set up just to receive jab emails from TES and other sources and at the moment it's set for any secondary position in the UAE. The MoE had a lot of vacancies for business teachers recently, and there have been a handful of others I think - maybe one here in AD but also some in the Northern Emirates too. They wouldn't necessarily be my first choice of schools, but if there aren't many business jobs out there they could be worth a look.
    teachersn likes this.
  18. teachersn

    teachersn New commenter

    Yeah I have been looking at some in UAE that are purely business. Would like to get a convo from you as I am not able to start them yet !!
    Mr_Frosty likes this.
  19. ToK-tastic

    ToK-tastic New commenter

    Many thanks for the reply Amysdad, yes I sort of knew about Key Stages, I used to head one of them up, and in an even further distant memory I remember writing something called a "Key Stage 3 Strategy" (courtesy of Messrs Blair & Blunkett). My comment was a rather paltry attempt at a humorous way to ask OP not to get too caught up in the UK paradigm. Most international schools are not delivering the UK Curriculum Structure, most international jobs are not in the UK curriculum structure etc etc.

    I agree with your thoughts on Business Management / Studies, I assume that the international popularity of the subject reflects a rather more quantitatively transactional value system (or one at least perceived as transactional). I often ask my students why they want to study business, and the reply comes because they want to go into business. The purpose of such business is oft unknown, or unclear, if not determined by family pre-requisite. Far too often I find, in International schools, that Business is the last resort after Medicine, Engineering, Law and Architecture have been tried and rejected. This is one (of the few things) that I miss from London when our (Key Stage 5) Sixth Form was full of artists, humanicists and aesthetes of wonderful variety. A place in which the History of Art was but a mere fancy of the dull of imagination as the UCAS deadline loomed.
    amysdad and yasf like this.
  20. Mr_Frosty

    Mr_Frosty Established commenter

    I've sent you a conversation.

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