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Incidents that didn?t result in a permanent exclusion

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by oldandrew, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. oldandrew,
    Let me start by saying that I agree with a lot of what you contribute.
    However, I am puzzled a tad by your comment.
    Are you saying that it is unlikely that any teaher with industrial experience will ever find smt competent as managers?
    Are you saying that us converts from industry are being elitist in some way?

    I worked in the software industry for many years. Mostly in very large multi-national companies involving teams of between 5 and 120 people. Managers could not ignore requests for help from team members, managers could not persecute team members for standing up for their rights, managers could not constructively dismiss people they didnt like. If someone could not cut the mustard the profit motive ensured swift decisive action. That applied to managers too. A bad manager could cause a missed deadline or lost revenue. Mangement is a collection of skills. Some of those can be learned. The most important ones, in my opinion, cannot. The main skill of smt is being able to manipulate stats. Man management ( or whatever the pc term is these days) skills are simply not necessary in a dictatorship.

    pepper5 likes this.
  2. "Are you saying that it is unlikely that any teaher with industrial experience will ever find smt competent as managers?
    Are you saying that us converts from industry are being elitist in some way?"

    The former.

    Really I was just pointing out that what you said was not just your opinion, it was the opinion of everybody I have ever met in teaching with an industry background.
    pepper5 likes this.
  3. Why are the SMT so inconsistant? And why ae these things allowed to happen?

    If you assult a member of staff in a hospital, they prossecute.

    So why can these get away with it?

    The kids aren't stupid - they know the system. They just say that they were provoked by the member of staff and they get away with it.

    I think that if a few of the worse offenders were made examples of, the others would be better behaved.

    Bring back the cane. (only joking.)

    But seriously, if I was the head of a school, I would come down like a ton of bricks on a pupil who harms a teacher, and give across the message that it is unacceptable behavior.
    pepper5 likes this.
  4. At a guess Headteachers are under a lot of pressure not to permenantly exclude children. Schools suffer financially and a lot of exclusions looks bad (even though it is better than never excluding the worst children and looking good) and can probably attract the attention of Ofsted. Also the government has linked permenant exclusion to a life of petty crime and have, wrongly IMHO, concluded that permanent exclusion leads to criminality. (something like 90% of persistent young offenders have been excluded from school)

    With regards as to why SMT are generally so hopeless at management, it is because they are not managers, They are teachers who have risen through the ranks. Most of the managers I worked for in industry had appropiate qualifications to do that job and were trained in house too.
  5. hit by a year 7 in front of other children, isolated for 2 lessons.
    pepper5 likes this.
  6. A (lovely) member of my year 7 form had his head smashed into the wall, causing bleeding, and was pushed onto the florr and kicked by 2 year 10 boys. They were isolated for the afternoon and given 2 days' suspension after myself and the HoY kicked up a fuss.
    pepper5 likes this.
  7. garyconyers

    garyconyers New commenter

    I can well believe it.
    pepper5 likes this.
  8. feather

    feather New commenter

    At Blurton Stoke it was thump a teacher and get 2 days or say boo to the discredited head. Balukawit or is it witless is still drawing public money for his crass behaviour. Stoke kids are known for lacking education and discipline. It wasn't like this before when there was discipline. This is what this government has done for education in Stoke.
    By undaunted
  9. feather

    feather New commenter

    By the way all of the mentioned incidents and worse were happening weekly if not daily at Blurton. Only because the Head Balukawitless allowed it all to go on with an ah that ones poor. Oh no the drug dealers wern't they were rich and allowed free rein in the place. He turned it from a model comprehensive to a cheaters paradise.
  10. twigs74

    twigs74 New commenter

    Used tampon thrown across the room towards the teacher. Two year 10 'girls' (and i use the term loosely) had a 'stern talking to' and were in lessons as normal after the incident had occurred. Delightful.
    pepper5 likes this.
  11. Whelanmk

    Whelanmk New commenter

    Had a pen deliberately thrown at me once and there was another occasion when a student sat in my chair and refused to get off of it. He wasn't even in my class. Both have been excluded several times before. I feel like I've had it lucky compared to most in this thread, though. Hope they're all still okay.
    pepper5 likes this.
  12. Child in YEAR 6 yes you heard me YEAR 6 barged into kitchen and grabbed a knife and threaten a dinner-lady because she wouldn't let him stay the loo at dinner (he'd already had his food and was "hiding from the cold") I was one of two teachers on duty at that lunch time so was the first on scene. I sent a student (my only option bad decision I know) to summon as much help as she could whilst the other teacher on duty had figured out what was going on and was on the phone to the police. Within minutes (what felt like hours) a police armed response unit where pointing the electric gun things at the lad. The SMT then decided to give him a 5 DAY suspension!!! When I argued for a permanent exclusion they threatened to sack me, but it turns out they where all sacked and I got the job as Deputy Head Teacher :) and I am still continuing my fight to have him excluded permanently as the LEA won't authorize it??? They won't even give me an anger management Councillor for the lad as the school is currently at is allocated level (7 students out of 271?)

    The poor dinner lady involved was in hospital for 3 days suffering from stress.
  13. feather

    feather New commenter

    STOP the excuses SMT if there are policies you are forced to follow from an LEA or who ever is at the top these days and these result in dangerous pupils being present in a school deal with it from a law and order point of view. Nobody in a public office can ignore the laws of the land. That is called misconduct in a public office.
  14. garyconyers

    garyconyers New commenter

    Up - just in case anyone was in any doubt about what some schools are like.

    If you're having a tough time its not just you - there are nice schools out there.
  15. A student who was known for a long time by all teachers and students for swearing at teachers. The student just had a report which had a target that she should be respectful to teachers.

    Mind boggles as to why it is so hard for some schools to have a well established behaviour policy that all members of staff are encouraged and supported to follow. A policy that does not allow the students to make their own rules because of the lack of the school's own rules or the lack of the persistence to have the students face the consequences. Are they afraid parents will complain just because the school wants to create a safe and positive learning environment for all? Mind really boggles.

    The best policy I have seen in schools is the 4C (4 consequences system). One failure to follow the rules the student gets the first C (which is a warning). If the student does not correct his/her behaviour s/he faces the next consequence which can lead up to isolations and exclusions, being escalated each time. To make it effective, the leadership team encourages and supports all members of staff and even the supply teachers to follow this. And it is effective because each student and member of staff know what will happen if they don't do what they should and there is consistency.
    pepper5 likes this.
  16. chriszwinter1

    chriszwinter1 New commenter

    There you have it. Consistency not just as a buzzword but practised.
  17. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    I have been reading this thread this evening for the first time. I have been called a b**ch recently at a school I go to on supply and was quite depressed since sometimes I think things like this happen to me because there is something wrong with me. Now I understand that is a lot more common than I had realised.

    Will things ever get better?
  18. trainershoes

    trainershoes New commenter

    I have been looking at various posts and am saddened by what has happened to our educational system. I have been assaulted fives tines in the last four years (I work in the secondary sector) and the worst punishment given was 5 days external exclusion but a student who threatened a member of SMT got permanent exclusion.
    pepper5 likes this.
  19. scienceteacha

    scienceteacha New commenter

    Erm, GaryConyers, I know exactly which school you were at!

    I witnessed students making monkey chants at a black teacher at one school. It was pretty much ignored.
  20. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    ST - that is the problem with a lot of the poor behaviour in schools; it tends to be ignored instead of being addressed. But why??? Is it so hard to ring a parent and let them know what their children are doing and to ask them to reprimind them? Why would anyone in their right mind ignore a black teacher being chanted at?????

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