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I'm starting to like Labour a bit more ...

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Eureka!, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    anotherauntsally likes this.
  2. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

  3. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Great ......No doubt more NI contributions to pay for more something for nothing?
    Presumably does not include housing benefit.
  4. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    You nicked it from me!
    I can't remember where or when I first saw the idea, but it immediately appealed to me.

    Actually, even if you earn a huge salary, you would STILL get UBI.

    I sincerely hope it does. Where there is a shortfall people will have to find some sort of work/income, but at least they will not be threatened by losing benefits.
    GLsghost likes this.
  5. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Housing benefit £700 a month on average in London and a lot more in the city centre. So that UBI is starting to clock up. As it is universal that suggests big gains for anyone without housing costs in the capital or anywhere else. A UBI with housing costs based on London may make it worth not going to work in cheaper regions. Inversely A UBI based on a national average rent would mean London residents were penalised and would have to work to make up the shortfall.
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I'm pretty sure free money would appeal to everyone.

    Thing is I'm loath to take handouts... when I was unemployed I was very resistant to getting any benefits... and yes, I was lucky to have the financial security to have that option...

    I get it from my fathers side of the family... my grandfather use to give the child maintenance handout to charity... he argued with the government that he was employed full time and didn't need the money but they said he had to take it.
  7. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I'm sorry but the dismal state of the Labour party at the moment is a source of complete depression. Every day I wake up hoping Corbyn has fallen into a sinkhole or come off his bike into the path of a passing steamroller or something.
    delnon and Yoda- like this.
  8. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    And this is what the Labour Party is seriously considering?
    Taking money from the majority on middle incomes and redistributing it to the well off who don't even need it.
    So assuming UBI takes into account housing, that's about £1500 a month going to someone on a 'huge salary' . That will just about pay the school fees and holiday in Tuscany.
  9. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    mmm yes, London is a bit of a problem. There might have to be a gradual increase in the UBI as one nears the centre of London.

    I hope he will step down in favour of McDonell when the next election comes. He should be appreciated for making a breakthrough in politics, but he hasn't got a hope of garnering enough support of the electorate. He's just not pragmatic enough, and he is a bit stuck in the 70s...

    Taxes would have to be increased to pay for the scheme. It could be done so that low income earners benefit overall; middle income ones stay about the same while high earners lose out overall. UBI is a terrific way of tackling low income.

    But UBI could also be attractive to conservative economists. Because it is such a strong background income and safety net for workers , there might be a case for reducing bureaucratic burdens on employers - even the minimum wage maybe! Also, of course, there are the efficiency savings due to the removal of administering a complex benefits system.
  10. Orkrider2

    Orkrider2 Star commenter

    Maybe they could have a similar London weighting system that they do for jobs to counterbalance the cost of living around here.
  11. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Any gradual increase means its not universal. Rents are higher in Cambridge, Oxford and Brighton than in many parts of London. Obviously rents are much lower in Sunderland or Merthyr Tydfil, perhaps a UBI by local authority but this then adds in complexity and may reduce social mobility.
    Its not London that's the problem, its the cost of housing in much of the UK that is the problem.
  12. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    It's an issue I grant you, but nothing so serious as to derail the idea.
  13. FritzGrade

    FritzGrade Senior commenter

    Coming from McDonnell, the man Ken Livingstone sacked for lack of financial ability.
  14. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    True, but having Corbyn as Labour leader and McDonnell as shadow chancellor will derail the idea. Perhaps if Osborne steals the idea and calls it something else then it may happen.
  15. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Yes, better the current way of doing things: crashing the world economy, austerity, climate change, getting us involved in wars here, there and everywhere, doctors on strike and the destruction of my profession.

    What's not to like?
    guinnesspuss likes this.
  16. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    The essential problem is that neither Cameron nor Corbyn are fit to run the proverbial whelk stall.
    Alf58 likes this.
  17. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Numbers added by me so:
    1. Labour (not the world, even if Brown said he alone had saved the world...)
    2. Tories cleaning up after Labour
    3. Both governments and disputed
    4. Blair and both governments
    5. Would Corbyn's idea here stop that?
    6. Successive governments - teachers allowed the profession to destruct by being so weak (unlike the doctors).

    To be honest, I am not totally against Corbyn as I do think we desperately need new ideas and new approaches. But the 'let's write blank cheques and give free lunches' feeling I am getting about him makes me shake and recall the loony left days of the 80s.
  18. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    That's very unlikely because Tory philosophy (and previous Labour admininstrations') is to use the threat of the dole to get workers cowed, and to maximize GDP regardless of quality of life.

    It is time to stop regarding the UK as some sort of beehive that must be bigged up and made to be as busy as possible, as if it were the pet project of politicians. UBI steers matters away from that sort of hyperactive approach to economics.
  19. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    Is there a worthy principle lurking in that belief? I can't see one myself!
  20. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Was child maintenance not given explicitly to mothers?

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